9
Please note that Vineeto’s correspondence below was written by the actually free Vineeto
(List D refers to Richard’s List D and his Respondent Numbers) Vineeto’s Selected Correspondence Out-from-Control October 29 2024 CLAUDIU: Then I wonder what the next objection is and I have trouble finding one – or in other words like there isn’t really one. Although there must be something else it would have happened? Might be more about finding additional reasons and/or motivation to take the final step. A huge one was identifying the pattern I have to withdraw and go into a complete “not caring“ anymore, just turning away from a situation or a problem. I saw in a flash just how deeply depraved that actually is, and how I don’t want to do that anymore in my life – and it appears to have disappeared entirely! VINEETO: Hi Claudiu, This is a significant pattern to have identified and it’s a very common reaction (strongly conditioned and upheld by society as well) mainly for males and a lot of females too. And it is not easy to talk about it because when you withdraw, you naturally don’t communicate. The “not caring“ is of course only a defensive front because if in such a situation you really didn’t care you would not have to withdraw from feeling hurt. It is indeed “depraved“ not in its moral meaning (bad, sordid or wicked), but in the sense of “depraving you“ from being able to resolve the problem and not get triggered again in a similar situation. It is also “depraving you“ from experiencing intimacy with your fellow human beings each time it comes into play. So it is really wonderful that you say “it appears to have disappeared entirely“ – just be attentive if/when a habitual reoccurrence wants to manifest. CLAUDIU: Also for the longest time there was a little actualist voice in my head (that was ‘me’ of course) telling me that I should proceed, coaxing me along, imploring me, giving the feeling or appearance of this being an ‘important’ (as in ‘serious’) thing, essentially making a drama out of it – and now I see that that’s silly, totally unnecessary. Maybe it helped in the past but it just doesn’t seem to be a useful thing anymore! […] And yet even though it is not ‘important’ as in ‘serious’ – and there is no feeling or ‘rush’ to do it in a real-world time-pressure sense – it is clear it is important as in having a large and meaningful impact on this body, the bodies of those closest to me, and the world at large. And I was about to write that the sooner it happens the better, but even this does not seem to convey it exactly, is there really a “sooner“ as opposed to a “later“? It is always just now anyway, after all… VINEETO: It is amazing how often the cunningness of the identity is in operation – here ‘you’, the identity, is masquerading as an “actualist voice“ urging you on, whilst the very fact that there is an identity urging you, veils or distracts of even puts you off from what you actually want to bring about! The aim of ‘me’ is to literally create a diversion and drain the energy of going forward by putting you in conflict with your own aim. And then, as a result of not enjoying the conflict created by this “actualist voice“ you give in and ask if “there really a “sooner” as opposed to a “later”? And that “It is always just now anyway, after all…“ This is a copout, a semantic trick, to stifle your intent to become free now, and if not now then at the next opportunity to present itself. Only a four days ago you wrote – KUBA: This persistence of the guardian after self immolation means that really there is no excuse not to do it right away. CLAUDIU: Yes I thought the same after reading it! VINEETO: ‘Vineeto’ called these occurrences ‘furphy’ [(Austral. Slang): a false report or rumour; an absurd story] each time ‘she’ successfully exposed one of those cunning diversions. It became a fascinating game for ‘her’ to discover them as quickly as possible. You may need to arm yourself with fascinated attention, charged up with pure intent, to unveil, decode, disarm and unmask all these ‘little’ diversions and furphies created by a very cunning ‘self’-preserving identity, presented in a last-ditch effort to prevent you from reaching your destiny. CLAUDIU to Felix: Oo is it that we have another joiner of the out-from-control club? VINEETO: Just for the record - being out-from-control is not a stable condition but a transitory stage of a more or less ongoing excellence experience in the process of becoming free. As such it is not a “club” to leisurely hang out in forever. Look, here is the history of virtual freedom so far – Richard had to inadvertently veer off into Spiritual Enlightenment after about six months of “dynamic virtual freedom” (Richard, Selected Correspondence, Dynamic Virtual Freedom) whilst proceeding towards an actual freedom (because at the time it was the only possible way due to a marked lack of precedence in his unmapped adventure new to human consciousness); Devika backed out after 13 months, due to ‘stage fright’.(Richard, Selected Correspondence, Dynamic Virtual Freedom, #Devika) She consequently gave way to love and “chose for what she says is ‘True Love’ (‘Matrilineal not Patrilineal’)” (Richard, Actual Freedom List, No. 25b, 24 June 2003) and eventually “died a lonesome spinster”,(Richard, List D, No. 14a, 25 November 2009) while ‘Vineeto’, who, forewarned, had vowed never ‘to do a Devika’, went out-from-control the day Devika/Irene died (14 Nov 2009), and after about six weeks took advantage of the newly opened Direct Route and became newly actually free on 5 Jan 2010. One can’t stagnate, either go forward or backward. Here is how ‘Vineeto’ described this period in the Direct Route – “I experienced an ever-increasing pull to move forward into what I clearly and unambiguously recognized as my destiny – an irrevocable freedom from the human condition. It set in motion a process that was to undo all of my remaining bonds to humanity, my residue of inhibitions, my last hesitations and any and all lingering doubts. Having finally arrived at being out-from-control, living the ‘beer’ rather then being the ‘doer’, filled me with a previously unknown confidence and certainty that ‘my’ redemption was indeed nigh. To step out from control was a step deliberately taken, after sufficient clearing of the ground, so to speak, and after sufficiently ascertaining that what I wanted was indeed what I was aiming for (the genuine article of an actual freedom). Taking that step ‘I’ then willingly and with intent gave myself permission to allow the universe to pull me forward ever more strongly into the hitherto entirely unknown territory that lay between me and the ultimate goal. […] The other observation from this period of being out-from-control […] I remember clearly one day sitting in a circle of 5 friends, utterly relaxed despite the fact that I had never met one of them in person, and I noticed that I had no personal agenda whatsoever, no plan to stir the conversation into a particular direction, nothing to emphasize or hide, no self-centredness or favouritism, no shame, shyness, embarrassment, no power or drive – I was just being myself as I was. I sat in this group, as one of many, and my sole interest was that everyone present (including me as one of those present) enjoyed themselves/ obtained the maximum benefit from our meeting. I experienced myself as being unreservedly at ease and utterly benign and wasn’t driven to say anything unless it contributed to the overall quality of the conversation.” (i.e. no ‘self’-centredness whatsoever). […] “During the period of being out-from-control the identity (being the ‘beer’ as opposed to being the in-control ‘doer’) gallops ahead closer and closer to her/his destiny.” (Direct Route, No. 5, 17 January 2010) Just to emphasize – it’s not a membership-club, it’s more like being a fast-running tide carrying you inevitably towards your ultimate destiny. Cheers Vineeto (Actualvineeto, Claudiu2, 29 October 2024). June 2 2025 CLAUDIU: I think there’s just a disconnect here. The funny and delightful thing is that from the self centric way of being it’s a big social identity issue, wanting to show that I “know the answer” and defend myself. But writing now from the being naive way of being it just doesn’t ‘matter’ at all haha, at least this aspect of it. In any case it does seem beneficial to flesh it out in case I am missing something. So: If you read it as a normal/in-control self-centric being looking at a checkbox of stuff like “ooh gotta add some caring” and “oh yea can’t forget about the altruism!”, trying to check off boxes or add these in as ingredients to some dish, then I can see why you wrote what you did. Indeed it’s obvious that wouldn’t work, that isn’t how to proceed from being in an in control way of being. The way to proceed is rather to go from an out from control way of being which is what being naïveté is, which is also called an excellence experience. This isn’t an out from control virtual freedom, the distinction there (which I asked Richard about) is that pure intent isn’t fully and dynamically operative yet. But that’s just words describing something I haven’t experienced yet so it’s not so relevant now except as to know there’s something ‘more’ (but it is unknown to me what that is like). VINEETO: Hi Claudiu, I demure. You can only proceed from where you are at. How can you “go from an out from control way of being” when you are not in “an out from control way of being”? How can you go from “being naïveté” when you are not “being naïveté”? Being naïveté itself is to be permanently out-from-control. Richard: A rather quaint clay-pit tale which nonetheless depicts the range of naïveness from being sincere to becoming naïve and all the way through being naïveté itself⁽⁰¹⁾ to an actual innocence. ⁽⁰¹⁾To be naïveté itself (i.e., naïveté embodied as a childlike persona with adult sensibilities), which is to be the closest one can to innocence whilst remaining a ‘self’ (innocence is where ‘self’ is not), one is both likeable and liking for herewith lies tenderness and/or sweetness and togetherness and/or closeness whereupon moment-to-moment experiencing is of traipsing through the world about in a state of wide-eyed wonder and amazement as if a child again (guileless, artless, ingenuous, innocuous)—yet with adult sensibilities whereby the distinction betwixt being naïve and being gullible is readily separable—simply marvelling at the sheer magnificence of this oh-so-material universe’s absoluteness and unabashedly delighting in its boundless beneficence, its limitless largesse, as being the experiencing is inherently cornucopian (due to the near-absence of agency which ensues when the controlling doer is abeyant and the naïve beer is ascendant), with a blitheness and a gaiety such that the likelihood of the magical fairy-tale-like nature of this paradisaical terraqueous globe, this bounteously verdant and azure planet, becoming ever-so-sweetly apparent, as an experiential actuality, is almost always imminent. [Emphases added]. (A Clay-Pit Tale, last tooltip) Given that you recognized that you are not out-from-control, i.e. not consistently in an excellence experience or intimacy experience, with the ‘controller’ still operating, not “being the experiencing [which] is inherently cornucopian”, fully comprehending this will all of your ‘being’ experientially, this is the only point from where to start. CLAUDIU: So what I was attempting to convey, perhaps poorly, is that the way to continue from here seems to be to more consistently be naïveté, to be more and more of the time in this excellence experience way of being rather than not. I put ‘stabilize’ in squotes cause it’s not a great word, but don’t know what a good one would be. But basically to be it more consistently. VINEETO: To say it again for emphasis, the change from being in a methodological, in-control virtually freedom to a dynamic out-from-control different way of being is a paradigm shift, not “to be more and more of the time” in the way you have been – Vineeto: Unfortunately I was unable to find the exact quote where Richard used a similar description [“somewhat analogous to an automatic transmission changing into a higher gear”] when in January/ February 1981 the change into virtual freedom occurred ... (Actualism, Actualvineeto, Claudiu6, 1 June 2025a) To use a physical-world simile – there is a major difference between driving a car and flying in a rocket-ship. CLAUDIU: And the way doesn’t seem so different from establishing a baseline of feeling good, it’s a matter of noticing when I have fallen out of it and getting back to it soonest. So when you write the way to go out from control virtual freedom is by being naïveté it sounds like you’re saying the same thing — what do you think? (…) Yea I do think we are saying the same thing. Last few days have oscillated from being in control self-centric way of being and feeling or wondering if everything is horribly awry and I’m way off track, to the out-from-control naive way of being and it’s like oh ok I’m basically going in the right direction. As of now I do think I’m basically on the right track, but the doing/being of it will be the proof in the pudding of course. VINEETO: As the remainder of your reply is in a similar vein of just doing more of the same/ more consistently doing the same, and that we are talking about “the same thing”, let me use your own words of your report when your visit to Geoffrey was still more fresh in your mind – Claudiu: Two other key pieces: the major one was we figured out that I had been trying to put myself into actuality, as in I as identity, as a feeling-being, will continue somewhat beyond self-immolation. There were many ways I had justified it, like “Oh but Peter said there was a continuity of consciousness…” and he’s like “Consciousness! You’re translating that into ‘identity’! It’s not identity that continues!” or “But I remember disappearing in a PCE” and he’s like “No you don’t! You are putting yourself into the PCE and spoiling the memory. This is why you are supposed to rememorate it not remember it.” etc. (…) He also really impressed upon me just how significant this is. It’s not kid stuff. It’s not a playground ride or a roller coaster where you get on it then come back and get off and you’re back to where you were. It is a one-way ride with no return ticket. So long as the enormity of it is not grasped – to which fear and dread are a normal response – then it’s still just being on the playground ride. Only once this is grasped then can the decision be made to take the leap and continue anyway (otherwise you’re just imagining yourself to be on a cliff but you’re really on a flat ground, and you don’t see the edge to jump off of but only think you do). So you have to actually get to the edge of the cliff (seeing the enormity of the extinction) and only then you can decide to jump. (…) In any case the main take-aways for me from the trip was A) see that I really will disappear entirely, B) see the enormity and significance of this (the stakes are indeed high), C) stop kidding myself with fake hurdles that feel real, it really (for me at this point) is all avoidance tactics to avoid facing the real thing, which is the total extinction of it. In short, go up to the edge of the cliff, see if I really want it, then joyfully/gaily/cheerfully (not seriously) jump/traverse the wall of dread/whatever the metaphor, do whatever you can to do it, and then extinction will be nigh. Even though this first of “two key pieces” does not appear in your list of “main take-aways” I think it is an all-important revelation – that you “had been trying to put myself into actuality”. It might well require a certain gestation period to fully grasp the enormity of the impact on your imaginary way of “trying to put myself into actuality”. Because when fully understood, with all of your ‘being’, not just intellectually, it will have/ would have, completely taken the carpet from under your feet. Hence my reference to a gestation period – Richard: My experience with the peoples who have chosen to give felicity/ innocuity a go is, as a generalisation, that the necessary paradigm shift has usually been a gradual process of comprehension – not necessarily an instantaneous shift – and which paradigmatical change commences because of that choice ... and that choice mainly comes after a gestation period (which itself follows intelligent appraisal/ thoughtful consideration). And, by way of personal example, I need only point to the six-month incubation period already mentioned. [Emphasis added]. (Richard, Actual Freedom List, No. 60g, 30 October 2005b). It would be a pity if you missed the full import of what transpired during your visit to a fully free human being. Cheers Vineeto (Actualvineeto, Claudiu6, 2 June 2025). June 9 2025 Kuba: So this whole out from control / not out from control saga that has been going on. What I can say is that there was a qualitative shift last year and this qualitative shift has remained throughout. What changed then, has not unchanged […] being out from control is not a leisurely club to hang out in […] what it means to be out from control is the very antithesis of having such a static plateau to hang out on […] The experience of being out from control is more to do with the lack of anything stable or static rather than chilling out on some rung on an imaginary ladder. Essentially it is to say that being out from control is not a feather in ‘my’ cap, it’s more like ‘I’ am speedily loosing all ‘my’ feathers and ‘my’ cap. […] CLAUDIU: I think we both experienced something like this and what it is like being alive has not changed for me either. And the experiential portions of the reports we have made of it are accurate reports of what it is like, at least I haven’t made anything up. However, does it attain to that which is called “out-from-control virtual freedom” in actualist lingo? There are, I think, two ways to tackle this question. The first is the mapping approach which is trying to determine whether it really is this. What happened with me is: after talking about my experience of being alive with Geoffrey, he described a bit what it was like being out-from-control for ‘him’ in ‘his’ last week, and to me it sounded like a different thing than I was experiencing, and we were in concordance on that. Part of that convo is where he asked me something like, do I think that how I am now will inevitably result in self-immolation, or do I think there is something more I have to do to have it happen? I said it was the latter, and he said something along the lines of that that’s good and he was wondering whether I have been “chilling” / waiting around (or something like this) as a possible reason for why I haven’t self-immolated yet. Another way to take the mapping approach is to compare experience with already-available descriptions. Is something really described as being “nigh-on unstoppable” really compatible with a state that just… stops? Frequently? Even for months at a time? Kuba: I banished myself from remaining where it is so magical for no good reason at all, and hence I entered a “parenthesis period” that lasted months! (...) VINEETO: Hi Claudiu, After giving it some deliberation, I decided to comment on the whole topic. One reason is that I encouraged both yourself and Kuba to collect messages from the forum that appeared to fit the description of being out from control for publishing it on the AFT website, when it eventually turned out that this might not be the case. The other reason is that I take the words my correspondents write at face value and therefore can only go by what they write, and not what they live day-to-day, when Claudiu’s visit to Geoffrey provided a more complete experience – Claudiu: after talking about my experience of being alive with Geoffrey, he described a bit what it was like being out-from-control for ‘him’ in ‘his’ last week, and to me it sounded like a different thing than I was experiencing, and we were in concordance on that. The last but not least reason is that I will have to be more careful in my writing that I better not encourage people to adopt the label of being out-from-control according to what they write, so that time (a person’s and other readers’ most valuable asset) may not be frittered away by believing that they only have to “chill” and wait for the actualism process to complete by itself when this is not yet the case. For additional help in the action of determining your own situation I have collected some unambiguous quotes from Richard and one from myself from Richard’s selected correspondence (Richard, Selected Correspondence, Dynamic Virtual Freedom) – Respondent: Can you determine whether someone is living a virtual freedom ... Richard: It is entirely up to the person concerned to determine how they are experiencing this moment of being alive each moment again ... if another wishes to fool me, by reporting something which is not the situation then, when all is said and done, they only end up fooling themselves (when I go to bed at night I have had a perfect day and upon waking another perfect day is presenting itself). (Richard, Actual Freedom List, No. 25a, 15 June 2003) * Respondent: However, I think, I am beginning to understand pulling back/ turning away: it is like crossing a Rubicon, an experience of it can be physically felt as an empty space/ throbbing right under the belly (the uterus contracting). But of course, the person in question may be able to corroborate on this much more. Richard: (…). But you are correct – it is indeed like crossing ‘a boundary, a limit; esp. one which once crossed betokens irrevocable commitment; a point of no return’ (Oxford Dictionary) – and it is only upon such a crossing that the actualism process, as distinct from the actualism method, can start whereupon an inevitability thus set in motion begins to gather a momentum all of its own accord. Then one is on the ride of a lifetime! [Emphases added]. (Richard, List D, No. 6, 16 November 2009) * Richard: There is a distinct difference betwixt the actualism method and the actualism process – inasmuch the former is voluntary, or still-in-control, and the latter is involuntary, or out-from-control – to the degree that any comparison is akin to chalk and cheese in regards effect). [Emphasis added]. (Richard, List D, No. 7, 10 December 2009) * Richard: An obvious out-from-control/ different-way-of-being virtual freedom is an on-going excellence experience (EE) but an on-going intimacy experience (IE) may very well be the most likely state as an EE, being so close to a PCE as to be barely distinguishable ... [Emphases added]. (Richard, List D, No. 12, 9 December 2009). (See Richard, List D, Claudiu4, 28 Jan 2016). * Vineeto: My period of being out-from-control started when I (metaphorically speaking) traversed the ‘wall of fear’, described by Richard as ‘a fear so vast as to best be called dread’ occurring at the ‘utter imminence’ at the gate to an actual freedom. Richard described it this way in a private email about me – Richard: ‘Vineeto, who is now fully out-from-control/ in a fully different-way-of-being, and thus on my side of that enormous wall of fear completely encircling all of humankind, ...’ (24.12.2009) During this period, which for me personally lasted about four-and-a-half weeks before it culminated in the final event on January 5, 2010, I experienced an ever-increasing pull to move forward into what I clearly and unambiguously recognized as my destiny – an irrevocable freedom from the human condition. It set in motion a process that was to undo all of my remaining bonds to humanity, my residue of inhibitions, my last hesitations and any and all lingering doubts. Having finally arrived at being out-from-control, living the ‘beer’ rather than being the ‘doer’, filled me with a previously unknown confidence and certainty that ‘my’ redemption was indeed nigh. [Emphases added]. (Direct Route, James, 16 Jan 2010). Cheers Vineeto (Actualvineeto, Claudiu6, 9 June 2025). June 9 2025 Vineeto to Claudiu: My period of being out-from-control started when I (metaphorically speaking) traversed the ‘wall of fear’, described by Richard as ‘a fear so vast as to best be called dread’ occurring at the ‘utter imminence’ at the gate to an actual freedom. (Direct Route, James, 16 Jan 2010). IAN: Hi Vineeto, Could you please go into more detail on this wall of fear and traversing it. How did you come across it, were you aware of it while you were traversing, did anything in particular bring you there, or was it the inevitable result of increasing naiveté? Would love to get a better picture of this as I get the sense that something like that is lurking at the edges of my consciousness and possibly what keeps me in the corral. Its hard to say exactly what would be useful to hear but anything that fills in the blanks a little bit more would be great if you could. VINEETO: Hi Ian, A very timely question. I recently remembered the whole story and I was looking forward to the right opportunity to tell the story. It happened around end of November/ beginning of December 2009. Richard showed me and Peter a short video where a young woman was filming herself having pleasuring herself with unabashed delight. It was obvious that she was entirely unselfconscious, not acting, not pretending, but simply having a great time. Hers was a genuinely naïve enjoyment and celebration of her sexuality, an unbridled and uninhibited sensuality and sensuosity. ‘Vineeto’ was impressed, and at the end of the video ‘she’ said “if she can do it I can do it”. You’ll have to remember that two weeks before Richard had impressed up ‘her’ to come out-from-control (Richard, List D, No. 25, 6 February 2012). So ‘Peter’ and ‘Vineeto’ went to the bedroom, and with such naïve demonstration it was indeed easy to imitate and replicate the naïve unbridled enjoyment of sexuality and sensuality. That’s how ‘Vineeto’ lost ‘her’ own inhibitions. When Respondent No. 4(D) met us [Peter, Pamela, Tom, Richard and myself] on 5th December 2009, ‘Vineeto’ finally noticed the change in ‘herself’ and happily whispered to Richard “psst, I am out-from-control” – ‘Vineeto’: The other observation from this period of being out-from-control worth sharing, I was able to make when ‘No. 4(D)’ came for a visit. I remember clearly one day sitting in a circle of 5 friends, utterly relaxed despite the fact that I had never met one of them in person, and I noticed that I had no personal agenda whatsoever, no plan to stir the conversation into a particular direction, nothing to emphasize or hide, no self-centredness or favouritism, no shame, shyness, embarrassment, no power or drive – I was just being myself as I was. I sat in this group, as one of many, and my sole interest was that everyone present (including me as one of those present) enjoyed themselves/ obtained the maximum benefit from our meeting. I experienced myself as being unreservedly at ease and utterly benign and wasn’t driven to say anything unless it contributed to the overall quality of the conversation. (Direct Route, James, 16 Jan 2010). Funnily enough, I completely forgot the event which had set it all in motion and allowed me to traverse the ‘wall of fear’ without noticing what ‘I’ had done, so to speak. Obviously, my social-conditioned mind still had come to terms with the newly discovered reality. It was months later when Richard reminded me of the ‘fear-shattering’ event. It’s quite a laugh! Cheers Vineeto (Actualvineeto, Ian, 9 June 2025). June 9 2025 VINEETO to Ian: ‘Vineeto’ was impressed, and at the end of the video ‘she’ said “if she can do it I can do it”. (…) So ‘Peter’ and ‘Vineeto’ went to the bedroom, and with such naïve demonstration it was indeed easy to imitate and replicate the naïve unbridled enjoyment of sexuality and sensuality. That’s how ‘Vineeto’ lost ‘her’ own inhibitions. (Actualism, Actualvineeto, Ian, 9 June 2025). KUBA: That is wonderful story, so much so for doing anything sudorific to traverse that wall of fear… Actually in this case it might have been : Sudorific – relating to or causing sweating. So I wonder once ‘Vineeto’ lost ‘her’ inhibitions via naïve unbridled enjoyment of sexuality and sensuality was that the end of feeling like a fraud for ‘her’? What was it like for ‘Vineeto’ once ‘she’ had stepped out from control to interact with Richard? Did that fear of “what he could discover” disappear? VINEETO: Hi Kuba, I had to think back and I can’t remember any feeling “like a fraud” after the event described above. I would say it was due to the fact that ‘she’ was already fully committed to ‘her’ demise without any reservations ‘she’ was aware of. ‘She’ was cognisant that as long as ‘she’ was a feeling being ‘she’ was an impostor but that was not a problem as ‘she’ knew ‘she’ was unreservedly heading towards ‘her’ destiny fast. That knowing comes with the experience of being out-from-control. For instance I remember that day we set off on the journey to our summer holidays in the remote rainforest wilderness, a two-day journey along the main river towards the long and winding tree-framed Bungawalbin Creek, ‘Vineeto’ was sitting on the bow deck while Peter was steering, and her heart was singing all the way because ‘she’ knew with utmost confidence that sometime during those 4-6 weeks of holiday “it” would happen, and every mile travelled brought ‘her’ closer to ‘her’ destiny. It was a glorious day and a wondrous journey, full of joyous anticipation. … And “it” did happen! KUBA: I wonder if this is the direction of the remaining inhibitions for ‘me’ – that there is this shame or fear of knowing that ‘I’ am a fraud. That somehow ‘I’ am ashamed of ‘being’. ‘I’ am ashamed of ‘my’ fear aggression, nurture and desire. It’s like as long as this shame is in place ‘I’ cannot ‘be’ naiveté, because ‘I’ have something to hide. And it is weird because it is ‘my’ fear, aggression, nurture and desire which ‘I’ am hiding and yet in the process of it ‘I’ blame the body? I can see this with the repression of sexuality, in that ‘I’ am the only dirty thing about sexuality and yet the body with its delicious functions was blamed. VINEETO: Look, such existential ‘problems’ are not solved by ruminating about it and dissecting what others have done, only to again busy oneself with ‘my’ shortcomings. You need to live it, do it, and whenever you find a hesitation due to moral and ethical constriction, overcome it instead of habitual hiding or retreating – Richard: Yes, once altruistically set in motion, a momentum happens of its own accord. One knows, from the perfection of freedom from the human condition as evidenced in the PCE, that it is possible to live the actuality that is already always here. What ‘I’ do is unreservedly allow ‘my’ eventual demise to occur ... pure intent, born out of the connection between one’s inherent naiveté and the perfection of the infinitude of this physical universe, will provide one with the necessary intestinal fortitude. And once embarked upon the wide and wondrous path to an actual freedom, you are not on your own: this perfection is with you all the way ... but if you waver, you are indeed doing it on your own. It is a matter of having the courage of your convictions and letting nothing stand in your way; determination and perseverance are the essential prerequisites to ensure success ... coupled with application and diligence. One finds one must – one needs must actually do it – for no one else will do it for you as no one else can do it for you. And although one may think and feel that it would be a lonely journey to take on one’s own it is not ... it is the most joyous escapade one can ever enter into. It is the jaunt of a lifetime. [Emphases added]. (Richard, Actual Freedom List, Alan-b, 13 December 1999) Richard: (…) no one has ‘the necessary intestinal fortitude to proceed’ before they proceed: it comes in sufficient quality, and only as required by the circumstances, as one proceeds. [Emphasis added]. (Richard, Actual Freedom List, Alan-b, 28 January 2001) (...) Cheers Vineeto (Actualvineeto, Kuba7, 9 June 2024). June 10 2025 ED: I’ve enjoyed the discussion on this topic immensely and it’s brought up a lot of questions, some that I’ve wondered about for some time. 1. What does out-from-control refer to? Specifically, what is one out-from-control from? My vague understanding is that the feeling-being is no longer under the control of social conditioning. All of those controls have been let go of, however, the feeling-being is still present. But it seems like a touch more than that as there is a shift from the “do-er” to “be-er.” Why are we not the “be-er” right now? VINEETO: Hi Ed, You are a being with the “controller” in charge to regulate all your thinking and feeling towards remaining exactly as you are, to keep the status quo. To keep your beliefs, your ‘truths’, your natural, i.e. passionate tendency for genetic and socially inculcated feelings and actions intact, as they are, to not change human nature. In order to be able to question these tenets of your social identity, whenever any of them interfere with consistently enjoying and appreciating being alive, you need, of course, actively pure intent operating. There is plenty of information in the website, for instance reading attentively Richard’s selected correspondence, Richard’s and Vineeto’s out-from-control reports, and of course the latest correspondence on this forum. ED: 2. How did Richard impress it upon you? What does one look for / aim for that is different than what you were already doing at the time? Could you even understand what he was asking you to do? VINEETO: He specifically asked me to. Of course, I knew what Richard was asking me. The topic had been discussed and explained for weeks the topic of the Topica mailing list discussion. We were gathered for the ‘First Convivium Gathering’ at the navigable end of the Bungawalbin river to further all participants to be, sooner rather than later, in a different-way-of-being – Richard: No mechanism prompted me; it was my select associates at the time – feeling-beings all of them – who all-of-a-sudden no longer had an impenetrable psychic force-field barring their access or blocking them from getting (existentially) close to me. Thus the impetus for me being as if lifted forward by a cresting wave (to utilise surfing terminology) came from them; after all, setting into motion plans for intensifying their actualism practice is what we had all gathered together there for, in that remote river wilderness area on that weekend in November, 2009 (in what became known as ‘The First Convivium Gathering’), and it was Vineeto’s existential proximity in particular which was the keenest impetus. (Hence me impressing upon her, and not another, the necessity of being out-from-control/in a different-way-of being). * On the following Monday (the 16th of November), the day after being notified of my second wife’s death, shortly after that ‘First Convivium Gathering’ had concluded and my select associates had all gone back to their respective residences thus leaving me once again on my own at the navigable head of that remote river system, this impetus resulted in a profound event occurring – the first of what became known as magical prodigies – whilst I was contemplating the significance of her death; a tremendous surge of calorific energy travelled from the lower solar-plexus, from just above the sex-centre, up through the rib-cage diaphragm, suffusing the entire thoracic region with a sparkling effervescence and generating a golden hue in the visual field; this prodigy, which came to be known as ‘the quickening’, remained operating 24/7 all through both the epoch-changing events of late 2009/early 2010 and those other magical prodigies, already made public knowledge, which enabled/ facilitated those events. These last few months, beginning in the morning of Friday the 7th of October 2011, a clearer, finer version of ‘the quickening’ has been subtly making itself noticed more and more; by ‘clearer, finer’ I mean the visual field is marked by a distinct crystalline character, rather than a golden hue, and the sparkling effervescence, which is more full-body this time around, has a much finer quality to it such that a fine-champagne-bubbles type of word Devika made-up all those years ago – ‘tintling’ – seems to be most apt. ‘Tis all quite marvellous. (Richard, List D, No. 25, 6 Feb 2012) The tooltip in that 4th paragraph of the quote (when accessed in the original) explains much of what you asked about pure intent and out-from-control. ED: 3. Does being out-from-control guarantee you’ll feel good? My understanding is that during this period the mutiny took place, am I correct? Can you elaborate on the potential for the “bad” & “good” emotions while being out-from-control? VINEETO: Personally, I was consistently being naiveté/ being in an ongoing excellence experience, due to having traversed the wall of fear and having unequivocally agreed to ‘my’ impending demise for 4 and a half weeks, with a disruption of 3 days. You can work out the percentage for yourself. ED: 4. I hate to ask but does this out-from-control state relate to enlightenment in any way, hence the caution to proceed without pure intent fully in place? I notice the “doer” features a lot in their discourse, however the “Absolute” doesn’t feature in being out-from-control. VINEETO: If you hate to ask this you probably already know the answer. It does not. Without “pure intent fully in place” you still have to be weary of the temptation but then you need pure intent operating to be in a different way of being. Only Richard, in the absence of a precedent, had to go through enlightenment – this is no longer necessary and it would be very silly to allow oneself to become enlightened due to being seduced by unexamined ‘good’ feelings. ED: 5. Similar to the above in regards to caution – I’ve often contemplated the difference between out-of-control and out-from-control. Might you be able to offer a comparison of the two? It almost seems like out-from-control is free license to be however you want, but the qualitative difference is the pure intent to make peace on earth apparent – thus one can trust oneself to ‘be’ however one wants. (There seems to be a massive dissociation here, creating an “entity” that controls and another “entity” that needs to be controlled.) VINEETO: Out-from-control is a different way of being as explained in the above given links. Out of control is anyone giving way/ expressing excessive feelings. Yes, “pure intent to make peace on earth apparent” is gained from the intimate connection betwixt the pristine-purity of an actual innocence and the near-purity of the sincerity of naiveté. When you have this connection you apperceptively know. Neither trust, nor belief, hope or faith is required, in fact they are detrimental. Beware whenever someone tells you, in such typical new-age lingo, to “trust oneself to ‘be’ however one wants”. (...) Cheers Vineeto (Actualvineeto, Ed, 10 June 2025). June 11 2025 ALEXANDER: What is meant by “ascendant beer”? VINEETO: Hi Alexander, As a short summary – in an excellence experience (EE) or intimacy experience (IE) the sophisticated doer (controller) is abeyant and the naïve beer is ascendant. The more you dare to be naïve the more the naïve beer (with pure intent) can come forward. Even though it is best to understand it experientially, when you feel like a child again but with adult sensibilities, I have collected a few of Richard’s quotes for you to theoretically understand more of what the “ascendant beer” refers to – Richard: To explain further: when out-from-control – out from being under control of the ‘controller’; that self-centred/ self-centric ‘doer’ (i.e., the ‘doer’ of deeds; the ‘actor’ of acts; the ‘speaker’ of words; the ‘thinker’ of thoughts; the ‘feeler’ of feelings) – the primary impetus of agency is the benevolence and benignity of pure intent being dynamically operative via the full concurrence of the ‘beer’ of those deeds, acts, words, thoughts, feelings (i.e., being the experiencing of same, as a state-of-being, as opposed to doing them). And the words “primary impetus of agency” (‘impetus’ as in, “being dynamically operative”, that is) are used advisedly as, with the ‘doer’ abeyant and the ‘beer’ ascendant, the modus operandi of this mutual agency is indeterminable due to an incapacity to distinguish between the one and the other. I have written about this quite extraordinary state of affairs before (albeit expressed as “unable to distinguish between ‘me’ doing it and it happening to ‘me’” due to those words of mine being read/ heard by a ‘doer’ and not a ‘beer’). Viz.: • [Richard]: “... one has to want it like one has never wanted anything else before ... so much so that all the instinctual passionate energy of desire, normally frittered away on petty desires, is fuelling and impelling/ propelling one into this thing and this thing only (‘impelling’ as in a pulling from the front and ‘propelling’ as in being pushed from behind). There is a ‘must’ to it (one must do it/ it must happen) and a ‘will’ to it (one will do it/ it will happen) and one is both driven and drawn until there is an inevitability that sets in. Now it is unstoppable and all the above ceases of its own accord ... one is unable to distinguish between ‘me’ doing it and it happening to ‘me’. One has escaped one’s fate and achieved one’s destiny”. [emphases added]. (Richard, Actual Freedom List, Rick, 4 January 2006). (Richard, List D, Claudiu4, 15 August 2016). * Richard: Lastly, because the terms ‘doer’ and ‘beer’ are utilised in religio-spiritual/ mystico-metaphysical literature to refer to ‘ego’ and ‘soul’, respectively, it is apposite to point out here that those terms are *not* being used thataway when referring to the doer being abeyant, and the beer ascendant, in either a near-PCE – else IE’s and EE’s would instead be ASC’s (i.e., egoless) and thus not near-PCE’s – or when in an out-from-control virtual freedom. (Richard, List D, Srinath2, #out-from-control) * Richard: The gradations of ‘her’ [Grace’s] scale were, basically, good, very good, great, excellent, and perfect – whereby, in regards to intimacy, ‘good’ related to togetherness (which pertains to being and acting in concert with another); ‘very good’ related to closeness (where personal boundaries expand to include the other); ‘great’ related to sweetness (delighting in the pervasive proximity, or immanence, of the other); ‘excellent’ related to richness (a near-absence of agency; with the [sophisticated] doer abeyant, and the [naïve] beer ascendant, being the experiencing is inherently cornucopian); and ‘perfect’ related to magicality (neither beer nor doer extant; pristine purity abounds and immaculate perfection prevails, a.k.a. an excellence experience) – all of which correlate to the range of naïveness from being sincere to becoming naïve and all the way through being naïveté itself to an actual innocence. (Richard, List D, Claudiu4, 28 January 2016). (…) Richard: In other words, just as it is possible for someone whose manner of living/ way of life is yet to have feeling good (i.e., a general feeling of well-being) established as a bottom-line of on-going experiencing, come-what-may, to have either an EE or IE (wherein the doer is abeyant and the beer ascendant), be they spontaneous or induced, from time-to-time – just as they can have a PCE itself (where identity in toto/ the entire affective faculty is abeyant) – so too can a person yet to be able to describe their modus vivendi as either “feeling as happy and harmless (as free of sorrow and malice) as is humanly possible” or “feeling excellent/ perfect for 99% of the time” such as to be designated “a pragmatic, methodological virtual freedom” (a.k.a. “a still-in-control/ same-way-of-being virtual freedom”). Indeed, anyone at all can have an IE or an EE – or even a PCE – at any time in their life (albeit totally ignorant of any such nomenclature and what they actually signify). What sets the ongoing near-PCE known as “a dynamic, destinal virtual freedom” apart from ever other way of life/ manner of living is, as is expressed in that paragraph, by being in full allowance of the benignity and benevolence inherent to pure intent being dynamically operative – whereby the actualism method segues into the actualism process – such as to be pulling one evermore unto one’s destiny. And here is why the actualism process is imperative: • [Richard]: “(...) the out-from-control/ different-way-of-being term, in actualism lingo, specifically refers to the actualism process superseding the actualism method – meaning the controlling doer is abeyant (hence: ‘out-from-control’) and a naïve beer is ascendant (hence: ‘different-way-of-being’) – whereby the benignity and benevolence of pure intent increasingly renders the otherwise essential societal moeurs (a.k.a. ‘mores’) redundant, whilst simultaneously precluding anomie ...”. (Richard, List D, Andrew, 28 February 2016). (Richard, List D, Claudiu4, 28 January 2016). * RICHARD: The vital distinction is the overarching benignity and benevolence inherent to infinitude – which has nothing to do with any affective felicity and innocuity – being dynamically operative due to the cheerful and thus willing concurrence of the beer. For instance (from 2005): • [Richard]: “The actualism method is not about undermining the passions ... on the contrary, it is about directing all of that affective energy into being the felicitous/ innocuous feelings (that is, ‘me’ at the core of ‘my’ being, which is ‘being’ itself) in order to effect a deliberate imitation of the actual, as evidenced in a PCE, so as to feel as happy and as harmless (as free of malice and sorrow) as is humanly possible whilst remaining a ‘self’. Such imitative felicity/ innocuity, in conjunction with sensuosity, readily evokes amazement, marvel, and delight – a state of wide-eyed wonder best expressed by the word naiveté (the nearest a ‘self’ can come to innocence whilst being a ‘self’) – and which allows the overarching benignity and benevolence inherent to the infinitude, which this infinite and eternal and perpetual universe actually is, to operate more and more freely. This intrinsic benignity and benevolence, which has nothing to do with the imitative affective happiness and harmlessness, will do the rest. All that was required *was ‘my’ cheerful, and thus willing, concurrence*. [emphasis added]. (Richard, Actual Freedom List, No. 60f, 29 September 2005). (Richard, List D, Claudiu4, 15 August 2016). There is plenty more information on the website, for instance Richard’s selected correspondence, Richard’s and Vineeto’s out-from-control reports, and also several pages on the Topica Mailing List, especially (Richard, List D, Srinath2, #out-from-control), (Richard, List D Martin), (List D No. 6) and (Richard, List D, Claudiu4, 28 January 2016 forward). Let me know if that makes it more clear to you. The pragmatic approach is to be ruthlessly honest with yourself, utterly sincere, and thus allow your hidden-since-puberty naiveté to come to the fore. Cheers Vineeto (Actualvineeto, Alexander, 11 June 2025). June 13 2025 VINEETO: Personally, I was consistently being naiveté/ being in an ongoing excellence experience, due to having traversed the wall of fear and having fully agreed to ‘my’ impending demise for 4 and a half weeks, with a disruption of 3 days. You can work out the percentage for yourself. ED: Were you no longer out-from-control for those 3 days? I guess I wonder if being out-from-control played a part in you getting swept into the emotions of the event – with no boundaries or limitations to control how you should feel. No loyalty to Richard or the image of yourself that had been a practicing actualist. VINEETO: And I wonder why you keep asking (3 times now) about those 3 days during my actualism process rather than asking how I succeeded to become actually free, especially as this particular event most likely won’t have any relevance any longer for those aspiring to become actually free? To explain: For the very first pioneers ‘insanity’ played a prominent role for several reasons – * Richard described his enlightenment period also as 11 years of institutionalised insanity and repeatedly warned everyone about it. * Feeling being ‘Vineeto’ was at times witness to both Richard’s second wife (de jure) and his third wife (de facto) being fearful of Richard being insane (his second wife responded to this fear by living in and out of an ASC (“The Goddess all humankind had been expecting“). (Richard, List D, No. 6, 16 November 2009). Their occasional suspicion was only natural Richard being the first person (and the only one at the time) having not affective, psychic and imaginary faculty, i.e. being free from the human condition. * Several people on the mailing list went on and on about Richard having particular forms of insanity based on their own amateurish long-distance diagnoses. (Common Objections “Richard is insane“). ‘Vineeto’ had never been (consciously) affected by these quite ridiculous amateurish long-distance claims and ‘she’ had plenty of PCEs of ‘her’ own to know what ‘she’ was aiming for … until the mutiny occurred – Richard: As this had been my experience twice before – once on the previous night, when another feeling ‘being’ had inadvertently slipped bodily through[1] [1]The reason why the word inadvertently is apt is because that feeling ‘being’ – just as was the case with my second wife (de jure) many years previously – was not of sufficient qualification to be the direct-route pioneer essential for global peace and harmony; indeed, this inadvertent access was of an ‘innocent abroad’ nature, to use a popular expression, and the dilettante quality of such a privileged access – despite being complete, as it was, with the most perfect bodily touching (a physical caressing of absolute perfection) – led to their worldview-shattering discovery of my actual age (worldview-shattering only for ill-informed/ ill-prepared dabblers); this worldview-shattering shock of theirs, accompanied by much wide-eyed staring and the plaintive crying-out of the words ‘Two worlds!?! Two worlds!?!’ instigated the panic-stricken dash for (presumed) safety from an (assumed to be) insane man – as concluded from an amateurish ‘split-personality mental disorder’ diagnosis (based solely upon an automorphically ascribed adult personality who was, supposedly, co-existing with a ‘left behind’ teenager) – and the consequent mutiny as others were affectively-psychically sucked, willy-nilly, into a collective panic. As the word collective here refers to blind nature’s affective herding/ flocking survival package a shipboard insurrection/ insurgency is essentially no different to any such seditious/subversive civic disorder, whether on land or at sea, whereupon the much-touted ‘community spirit’/ ‘communal rallies’ can abruptly turn, in a collective flash of affective-psychic power-play, into the notorious ‘mob riots’/ ‘mob violence’ which ruling classes through the ages have feared so much (as in peasant uprisings/ working-class revolutions). The solution? None other than the extirpation of the entire affective faculty/ the identity in toto formed thereof – whereby all hierarchical civic order via civic control becomes instantly redundant – leaving only equity and parity (not equality) where previously there was an instinctual jostling for pecking order. (Long Awaited Announcement, #magic, [R] tooltip Footnote [1]) Here is another statement about the mutiny – Richard: (…) the primary reason – indeed the sole cause – for the mutiny (…) was the utter panic which ensued, upon having inadvertently had direct access to me as I actually am, pursuant to the revelation that the writer of these millions of words is but an innocent youth … (Richard, List D, No. 2, 6 January 2010). ‘Vineeto’ was one of the people infected by the “panic-stricken“ strong vibes, which corresponded to ‘her’ own atavistic fear of being insane/ Richard being insane after all, which ‘she’ had not been aware of all this while – a fear which ‘she’ experienced as being more dire than death itself. Hence it took three days for ‘her’ to come to ‘her’ senses. However, upon her return to the convivium, before ‘she’ had even spoken with Richard, an event happened which I recently relayed – Vineeto to Claudiu: To expand on ‘Vineeto’s’ experience “that ‘she’ was ready to give up anything and everything ‘she’ had valued“ – ‘Vineeto’ had returned to the remote wilderness where the houseboats were moored (still under the frightening impression that Richard had a “split-personality mental disorder’ (Long Awaited Announcement, #magic, [R] tooltip Footnote [1]) to pack ‘her’ office paraphernalia and other necessities into the dinghy to take to a temporary location elsewhere until ‘she’ knew what to do next. She met the other two mutineers a few hundred meters upstream, only to then be informed they wanted to disassociate themselves from the whole affair right then and there and would not take ‘her’ in their car. So ‘Vineeto’ found ‘herself’ abandoned at nowhere in that ancient rainforest, her belongings in the dinghy, which at that point had run out of petrol, and stark naked (as everyone was on their holiday). Strangely enough, this last shocking turn of events, instead of freaking ‘her’ out, brought an unexpected calm, ‘she’ slipped into the warm water of the creek and, floating along, looked at the sky and ‘her’ only thought was “if this is what it takes to become actually free so be it.“ (During the 2-3 out-of-control days, although ‘she’ questioned Richard’s state of mind ‘she’ never doubted his words written on the website, nor the PCEs nor ‘her’ intent to become actually free despite the emotional turmoil). The last turn of events resulted in a surprising peacefulness after the emotion-filled events of the last two-and-a-half days – no more struggle, only the full permission and endorsement to let the universe run ‘her’ life, as all ‘she’ had tried had come to naught. ‘She’ eventually made it back to the houseboats, towed by two roaming fishermen (there was no room to be self-conscious then) yet it took another few hours to gather the courage to talk to Richard about the whys and wherefores of what happened – by this time not knowing anymore if Richard was insane or ‘she’ ‘herself’ had lost the plot completely. In hindsight it was all utterly hilarious. (Actualism, Actualvineeto, Claudiu5, 12 March 2025). As such, it was all a necessary precursor (necessary because it happened) to clean out the last remnants of any resistance to becoming actually free, which happened only a few days later. The reason I said that “this particular event most likely won’t have any relevance any longer for those aspiring to become actually free“ is because the Direct Route has been opened, so demonstrably no one needs to venture close to enlightenment (institutionalised insanity) in order to become actually free. Also because it has been, again demonstrably, proven that an actual freedom is replicable by several people so far, the fear of going insane never needs to come up at all. ‘Nough said. (...) Cheers Vineeto (Actualvineeto, Ed, 13 June 2025). June 15 2025 ALEXANDER: Thanks for all the quotes Vineeto. Yes this clarified it a lot. I must have come across it before but just didn’t remember it. Having that terminology and way of seeing what I’m doing is helpful. Is it correct to say there is no psychological component to the beer? It’s just feeling at its core? VINEETO: Hi Alexander, You are welcome. It is not correct. When Richard says the ‘doer’ is descendant whilst ‘beer’ is ascendant, it means the sophisticated controller, the one who philosophises, plans, maps, directs and interferes into what is happening of its own accord, is substantially diminished and thus the naïve ‘beer’ is able to allow dynamically life living itself (or let the universe live one) with pure intent pulling one forward to one’s destiny, i.e. an actual freedom and the demise of ‘me’. As being out-from-control in a different-way-of-being is still within the human condition, the instinctual passions and the psychological/ psychic/ imaginative identity formed thereof is still operating. It only ceases with ‘my’ extinction. The best way to understand this is to be naïve, even better, be an excellence experience, and from this different way of being contemplate how you are experiencing yourself when your own ‘doer’/ controller is temporarily in the background. Cheers Vineeto (Actualvineeto, Alexander, 15 June 2025). June 15 2025 VINEETO: I wonder why you would want to spend more of your most valuable asset, your time, to give way to your “temptation” to search for theoretical semantic “similarities” between spiritualism and your concept of actualism. ED: In this case it’s wondering if the ‘doer’ / ‘beer’ word choice had anything to do with the ‘doer’/ ‘beer’ language in spirituality. There are plenty of cases of Richard using spiritual vocabulary. What’s becoming clear is that any spiritual understanding of a word cannot be useful since the words and understandings stem from spiritual experiences and not from entirely new to human experience experiences that actualist pioneers are navigating. (…) VINEETO: Hi Ed, The ‘doer’/ ‘beer’ terminology does has nothing to do with any of the spiritual definitions, and I already sent you a quote explaining that which you commented on. Viz.: Richard: Lastly, because the terms ‘doer’ and ‘beer’ are utilised in religio-spiritual/ mystico-metaphysical literature to refer to ‘ego’ and ‘soul’, respectively, it is apposite to point out here that those terms are not being used thataway when referring to the doer being abeyant, and the beer ascendant, in either a near-PCE – else IE’s and EE’s would instead be ASC’s (i.e., egoless) and thus not near-PCE’s – or when in an out-from-control virtual freedom. (Richard, List D, Srinath2, #out-from-control) The ‘doer’ is the sophisticated (philosophising, rational, conceptualising and controlling) ‘doer’ whereas the ‘beer’ is a benign naïve ‘beer’ within the scales of naiveté ranging from being sincere to becoming naïve and all the way through being naïveté itself to an actual innocence (in a PCE), such as described in Grace’s scale of intimacy – Richard: (…) A richness (aka an excellence experience) is where sweetness segues into a near-absence of agency via letting-go of control and one is the sex and sexuality (the beer and not the doer). (…) ‘Excellent’ related to richness (a near-absence of agency; with the [sophisticated] ‘doer’ abeyant, and the [naïve] ‘beer’ ascendant, being the experiencing is inherently cornucopian); [Emphasis added]. (Richard, List D, Claudiu4, 28 January 2016). (see also Richard, Abditorium, Intimacy and Intimacy Experience). More on not mixing spiritual practice with actualist practice – Richard: Fifth, as any ‘letting go of the controls’ by the controller means, ipso facto, the controller still remaining in situ it can only refer to – just as you do – something of the nature of a [quote] ‘certain degree of letting go (of beliefs and old patterns)’ [endquote] else it does indeed bring a spiritualist practice into an actualist practice ... complete with the still in situ controller cunningly morphing into the watcher of religio-spiritual/ mystico-metaphysical lore and legend. [Emphasis added]. (Richard, List D, No. 12, 9 December 2009). * VINEETO: A more fruitful investigation would be why you have this temptation (=feeling) in the first place? Is it perhaps to justify having spent so many years of your life in a fruitless endeavour and have difficulties (or pride) to admit that it was a futile enterprise? Or is it to delay dedicating your life doing something worthwhile? ED: The mistake is equating Richard’s use of the words “beer/doer” to the spiritualist’s use of the words and thinking that something could be gleaned from their writing. I can tell you that it’s neither of the options you present me but there are other avenues worth exploring. I’d be happy to navigate that with you in good faith if you’re interested. Because you didn’t answer the initial question directly, “does being out-from-control guarantee you’ll feel good? ... VINEETO: As there were multiple quotes presented which describe that being out-from-control is dynamic and that Devika relapsed from her dynamic virtual freedom I wonder why you still have to ask if feeling good is either guaranteed or permanent. Only the complete disappearance of the instinctual passions and the identity formed thereof is irrevocable, i.e. guaranteed and permanent. ED: Can you elaborate on the potential for the ‘bad’ and ‘good’ emotions while being out-from-control?” Looking back on the correspondence, you don’t address that question. VINEETO: I did not address this question specifically because the answer regarding “‘bad’ and ‘good’ emotions” is inherent in every description of what being out-from-control is – an ongoing excellence/ intimacy experience – Richard: An obvious out-from-control/ different-way-of-being virtual freedom is an on-going excellence experience … (Richard, List D, No. 12, 9 December 2009). An excellence experience is clearly explained as feeling excellent (Richard, Selected Correspondence, Excellence) which is per definition feeling better than good. Of course it is a precursor to an actual freedom, hence less than excellent experiencing occasionally can happen, but with pure intent fully activated less than excellent feelings will flush out the last remnants of whatever prevents an actual freedom now, “pulling one evermore unto one’s destiny”. Thus one is back to feeling excellent, (so near to being a PCE as to be almost indistinguishable from it), in a very short period of time. Richard: What sets the ongoing near-PCE known as “a dynamic, destinal virtual freedom” apart from ever other way of life/ manner of living is, as is expressed in that paragraph, by being in full allowance of the benignity and benevolence inherent to pure intent being dynamically operative – whereby the actualism method segues into the actualism process – such as to be pulling one evermore unto one’s destiny. [Emphasis added]. (Richard, List D, Claudiu4, 15 August 2016). And here is why you perhaps have difficulties to wrap your mind around the experiential aspect of this topic – Richard: (Being out-from-control/ in a different-way-of-being is quite daunting to contemplate as an on-going EE marks the end of the beginning of the end of ‘me’ and the commencement of the actualism process – as distinct from the actualism method – wherein a momentum not of ‘my’ doing takes over and an inevitability sets in; in an on-going EE the actual world has the effect of impelling one towards it – like a moth to a candle as the overarching benignity and benevolence of the actual increasingly operates such as to render ‘my’ felicity/ innocuity increasingly redundant; this is where being the nearest a ‘self’ can be to innocence – the naiveté located betwixt the core of being and the sexual centre (where one is both likeable and liking) – is attached as if with a golden thread or clew to the purity of actual innocence; an on-going EE is, thus, where one becomes acclimatised to benignity and benevolence and the resultant blitheness because the purity of the actual is so powerful that it would ‘blow the fuses’ if one was to venture into this territory ill-prepared). (Richard, List D, No. 12, 9 December 2009). ED: Can you elaborate on the potential for the ‘bad’ and ‘good’ emotions while being out-from-control? Looking back on the correspondence, you don’t address that question. VINEETO: I did answer the question but you were dissatisfied – ED: 3. Does being out-from-control guarantee you’ll feel good? My understanding is that during this period the mutiny took place, am I correct? Can you elaborate on the potential for the “bad” & “good” emotions while being out-from-control? VINEETO: Personally, I was consistently being naiveté/ being in an ongoing excellence experience, due to having traversed the wall of fear and having unequivocally agreed to ‘my’ impending demise for 4 and a half weeks, with a disruption of 3 days. You can work out the percentage for yourself. (Actualism, Actualvineeto, Ed, 10 June 2025). As for “potential” (synonyms: possible, prospective, future, probable (Oxford Languages) – this is a hypothetical question, a thought-out projection about potential into the future and cannot be answered. In other words, it is the controller who want to map out every step and ascertain the risks before experientially putting the first toe in the water, taking the first step into naiveté. As the way to being out-from-control is only when the controller, the ‘doer’ is descendant, i.e. moving into the background, such a map will not only be useless but counterproductive to naiveté. Perhaps Geoffrey’s apposite ditty expresses it most succinctly and to the point – Geoffrey: Ok here we go. My first reaction, when some notification appeared that my name had been uttered, was: WhO dIsTuRbS My sLuMbEr? (joy)That joy had me sit, and write the following: For I had been exploring the unknown continent, its golden cities and living clouds, for weeks, without a word. When some letter found its way to me, its ink faded from the sea voyage, enquiring about matters so home-bound as to appear foreign: a quarrel about definitions, from the Royal Society of leathery armchairs, asking for my judgment. My ruling. Please differentiate! they ask. Please settle our quarrel! We wish to classify, exactly, those birds we’ve never seen! So the golden city and the living clouds laughed and danced and sang: “Won’t they open the windows? Won’t they bathe in the stream? Won’t they take off their clothes, and swim through the sea?” (Geoffrey, Beer and Doer, February 2023). ED: You state you were consistently being naiveté for 4 1/2 weeks with a disruption of 3 days and then tell me to work out the math as if I care about the length of the disruption. I’m not presenting a “gotcha” question. You told me you were being naiveté for 4 and 1/2 weeks with a disruption of 3 days. I’m asking if being out-from-control was disrupted for those 3 days. Obviously being naiveté was disrupted. Are they one-in-the-same? Perhaps that’s where the confusion on my end is and you can tell me as much. VINEETO: What I can say is that being out-from-control was disrupted (=interrupted by being out-of-control) but the fact that ‘Vineeto’ had been out-from-control and could easily pick up ‘her’ connection to pure intent) and was fully committed to become free, the turning into an out-of-control period was only short and being out-from-control recommence with “being in full allowance of the benignity and benevolence inherent to pure intent being dynamically operative” after that particular disrupting issue (the fear of Richard being insane) had been settled. ED: I’m trying to understand if it’s a permanent state or not. And if it is permanent why the detour and can being out-from-control include the ‘bad/good’ feelings? Or, does one cease being out-from-control the moment they arise? Why is it different from an ongoing EE to necessitate it’s own vocabulary? Even at the end of your last post you describe it as a disruption of an ongoing excellence experience – not a disruption of being out-from-control. If the two are the same, then an EE is synonymous with being out-from-control. Given what you’ve said, am I understanding correctly that you were out-from-control, and then no longer out-from-control for 3-days, only to resume being out-from-control? VINEETO: Yes. The reason why I didn’t answer that is because it was already clear from the links I provided (if you read them with attention that it is not permanent as Devika had clearly demonstrated that anyone can abandon pure intent at any time and take back control over ‘my’ life. This is not like buying an item with a ‘money-back guarantee’ – it is your life and freedom is in ‘your’ hands and ‘your’ hands alone. Life is not all black and white and neither is the process of working one’s way out of the maze of the human condition. As I said, it’s experiential. ED: If you’re wondering why I’m asking questions then the best way to find out is by answering directly so the conversation can proceed. While it may be obvious to you that the event (a disruption during the best example of being out-from-control) most likely won’t have any relevance to those aspiring to become actually free – it may not be so obvious to me. I don’t know what to tell you other than my questions are coming from a genuine place. VINEETO: Perhaps this clear and extensive description/ clarification from Richard will settle your theoretical query until you have enough experiential expertise to settle it for yourself (it is from a file called “Richard’s Selected Correspondence, Dynamic Virtual Freedom” for which I provided the link to you in my first response to your queries on this topic, which you obviously failed to grasp) – RICHARD: G’day No. 12, I appreciate you giving it a go to clarify and a timely word from me will make your clarification complete. First of all, it is probably inevitable the phrase out-from-control be (incorrectly) expressed as ‘letting go of control’ yet the fact remains that the controller, being the controls, cannot let go of that which they are. Secondly, the hyphenated term you mention as me having been calling [quote] ‘an out of control virtual freedom as opposed to a in control virtual freedom’ [endquote] clearly has the hyphenated term different-way-of-being immediately after the forward slash betwixt the two hyphenated terms. Viz.: [Richard]: [...] being sans identity in toto/ the entire affective faculty (plus its epiphenomenal psychic facility) any residence or venue of mine is marked by an absence of both affective vibes and psychic currents ... a pristine ambience made all the more marked, for many a person, upon returning from the ‘real-world’ environs after a previous visit. [...] this pristine ambience is conducive to a sincere actualist activating their potential – albeit temporarily – as in some form of an out-from-control/ different-way-of-being (to whatever degree of intimacy they be comfortable with at the time). Furthermore, experience has shown that these intimacy experiences can be contagious, so to speak, for other sincere actualists also present as the atmosphere generated affectively/ psychically by the first to be out-from-control/ in a different-way-of-being can propagate a flow-on effect, on occasion. In short: a felicitous and innocuous atmosphere, begotten in an ever-fresh affectless/ selfless ambience, fosters a milieu where happiness and harmlessness can be the norm rather than the exception. (Richard, List D, 14a, 4 December 2009). Upon reflection it will be seen I am not – repeat not – referring to a PCE as ‘being’ is in abeyance then (the very fact not ‘being’ renders any different way of ‘being’ impossible). Thirdly, and most importantly for any flow-on effect, in a PCE there is similarly a marked absence of both affective vibes and psychic currents – a pristine ambience – to that of an actual freedom. (As an aside: the 5-month PCE was as useless in regards affectively/ psychically fostering a milieu, where happiness and harmlessness can be the norm rather than the exception, as is an actual freedom). An obvious out-from-control/ different-way-of-being virtual freedom is an on-going excellence experience (EE) but an on-going intimacy experience (IE) may very well be the most likely state as an EE, being so close to a PCE as to be barely distinguishable is not so likely to readily occur sooner rather than later. (Being out-from-control/ in a different-way-of-being is quite daunting to contemplate as an on-going EE marks the end of the beginning of the end of ‘me’ and the commencement of the actualism process – as distinct from the actualism method – wherein a momentum not of ‘my’ doing takes over and an inevitability sets in; in an on-going EE the actual world has the effect of impelling one towards it – like a moth to a candle as the overarching benignity and benevolence of the actual increasingly operates such as to render ‘my’ felicity/ innocuity increasingly redundant; this is where being the nearest a ‘self’ can be to innocence – the naiveté located betwixt the core of being and the sexual centre (where one is both likeable and liking) – is attached as if with a golden thread or clew to the purity of actual innocence; an on-going EE is, thus, where one becomes acclimatised to benignity and benevolence and the resultant blitheness because the purity of the actual is so powerful that it would ‘blow the fuses’ if one was to venture into this territory ill-prepared). Fourth, as any being out-from-control/ in a different-way-of-being (and there are varying degrees of such intimacy experiences) implicitly requires pure intent – which renders the necessity for morals/ ethics/ values/ principles null and void – it is certainly not the territory a fledgling actualist (to use your phraseology) has any business venturing into precipitously. Fifth, as any ‘letting go of the controls’ by the controller means, ipso facto, the controller still remaining in situ it can only refer to – just as you do – something of the nature of a [quote] ‘certain degree of letting go (of beliefs and old patterns)’ [endquote] else it does indeed bring a spiritualist practice into an actualist practice ... complete with the still in situ controller cunningly morphing into the watcher of religio-spiritual/ mystico-metaphysical lore and legend. [Emphasis added]. (Richard’s Selected Correspondence, Dynamic Virtual Freedom) In regards to your first question, “in this case it’s wondering if the ‘doer’/ ‘beer’ word choice had anything to do with the ‘doer’/ ‘beer’ language in spirituality. There are plenty of cases of Richard using spiritual vocabulary” – When Richard is “using spiritual vocabulary” it is obvious from the context, when reading attentively, that he is talking about his enlightenment or another’s spiritual experience. Additionally, you need to take into consideration that Richard first wrote to a Buddhist mailing list (List A), then to a Krishnamurti mailing list (List B) and several correspondences to a John-de-Ruiter spiritual mailing list. He naturally adapted his writing to have his co-respondents understand what he was saying but always made it clear where the difference lay to an actual freedom. So your throw-away justification has no substance. Whereas when you are attentive to where you (automatically/ inadvertently) insert your own spiritual interpretation into Richard’s words and/or overlook the context in which the correspondence was written, then there is no reason to blame Richard for his use of language as being the cause for your own mix-up, and/or skipping over information that does not instantly answer your specific question. And now, again you say it is my fault that I “didn’t answer the initial question directly” where the answer was in plain sight in the various links I provided all along. For instance – RICHARD: (...) The virtual freedom being referred to in ‘Richard’s Journal’ is, of course, the full-blown experiencing of it: an out-from-being-under-control and, thus, different way of being nowadays known as an ongoing excellence experience. (This ongoing excellence experience is what the methodological aspect of a virtual freedom – a persistent and diligent application of the actualism method – can morph into whenever that current-time awareness method has been applied to a sufficiency for that to occur/ have happen). This penultimate out-from-under-control/ different-way-of-being is barely distinguishable from a pure consciousness experience. (It was from this ongoing excellence experiencing that pure consciousness experiences occurred on a near-daily basis – sometimes two-three times a day – for the identity inhabiting this flesh and blood body all those years ago). (Richard’s Selected Correspondence, Dynamic Virtual Freedom) * RICHARD: Vineeto recently spoke of this feature of the actualism method as being essential for feeling-being ‘Vineeto’, when ‘her’ out-*from*-control virtual freedom turned into an out-*of*-control panic mode (in Message No. 12614). Viz.: [Vineeto]:‘This second panic only lasted for 3 days but because it happened during the out-from-control virtual freedom it turned into an out-of-control panic mode. Only ‘her’ decade-long training in keeping ‘her’ hands in ‘her’ pockets and *neither repress nor express* the intense feelings racing through ‘her’ allowed the extreme situation to subside so soon afterwards ... and look where I am today’. [emphasis added]. And, once the third alternative hove into view for ‘her’, ‘she’ was once again tapping into pure intent personified – per favour ‘the quickening’ – and thereby got back to being (safely) out-*from*-control once more. [Emphasis added]. (Richard’s Selected Correspondence, Dynamic Virtual Freedom) * RICHARD: In other words, someone genuinely out-from-control is constantly (i.e., consistently) ‘feeling excellent’, come-what-may, by the very nature of what that term refers to. (Richard’s Selected Correspondence, Dynamic Virtual Freedom) * RICHARD: In effect, the actualism process is what ensues when one gets out from being under control, via having given oneself prior permission to have one’s life live itself (i.e., sans the controlling doer), and a different way of being comes about (i.e., where the beer is the operant) – whereupon a thrilling out-from-control momentum takes over and an inevitability sets in – whereafter there is no pulling back (hence the reluctance in having it set in motion) as once begun it is nigh-on unstoppable. Then one is in for the ride of a lifetime! (Richard’s Selected Correspondence, Dynamic Virtual Freedom) Your high-handed dismissal of my replies (as in blaming Richard and myself for your own mis-understanding/ non-understanding) are not conducive to gaining a broader comprehension of what constitutes a dynamic, different-way-of-being. All I can do now is to recommend approaching the topic sincerely and naïvely, allowing yourself to think outside the box of both spiritualism and materialism, and perhaps even experientially find out for yourself what a different-way-of-being is like. To put it differently, if you read the AFT website with full affective attentiveness (with all your heart) and better still, with all your being and a connection with pure intent, then something can happen and shift in your understanding. People have reported having PCEs resulting from reading it with this attitude. Then apperceptive awareness can provide clarity. In short, I cannot do the thinking for you. Regards Vineeto (Actualvineeto, Ed, 15 June 2025). June 24, 2025 KUBA: And I am scared of this, because I have seen just how quickly the so-called goodness flips into malice, that I am a friend as long as I “play ball” and then very quickly I become foe. Actually the correspondence Richard had on the AFT when he first went public is a perfect demonstration of this, and the same for ‘Peter’ and ‘Vineeto’. What incredible push back against well meaning fellow human beings demonstrating a different way of doing things. This is certainly what I have enjoyed immensely when talking with you Vineeto, that there is no malice that I could accidentally trigger, it is so safe. And of course at times you will discover something that will trigger ‘me’ but that is ‘my’ business. It is an impression which has burned itself deep into ‘me’, seeing what it is like to interact with somebody that will never ever ‘bite’. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, I appreciate your perspicacity – and it gives you lived examples how you yourself can not only survive but thrive without the instinctual passions operating, in a felicitous and innocuous way, especially as you told me in a memorable post that “in short what ‘I’ deeply and passionately care about is to be innocence personified.” (Actualism, Actualvineeto, Kuba5, 8 March 2025). I am also amazed how quickly being scared of the (imagined) consequences of being naïve have evaporated after you “allowed ‘myself’ to deeply feel and fully divulge this feeling”. KUBA: Ok so I am starting to understand what is being spoken about with regards to being out from control. In that so far the success of the actualism method has relied on ‘my’ ongoing imitative felicity and innocuity, this is what delivers an in control virtual freedom. It is ‘my’ involvement each moment again which ensures a consistent virtual peace and harmony. VINEETO: If you mean “imitative” in the sense that you imitate actuality, being naively happy and harmless is indeed imitating the actual experience of a PCE until ‘your’ demise. KUBA: And now having gained confidence in the ultimate beneficence of the universe ‘I’ can allow an ongoing felicity and innocuity and an ongoing peace and harmony which is no longer of ‘my’ doing. VINEETO: Ah, now I understand the way you meant “imitative” – not instigated/ generated by the ‘controller’ but pure intent given free reign by the naïve beer. KUBA: I twigged onto this when I caught myself planning for the BJJ session which I am to teach tonight. And then I realised that I already know that it will go well, that ‘I’ don’t have to be vigilant anymore and that instead ‘I’ can allow the session to run itself. And that not only is this safe but even better than ‘I’ can otherwise accomplish through vigilance. It seems this is the direction to travel, that it is through having confidence in the ultimate beneficence of the universe that ‘I’ allow the perfection and purity which has nothing to do with ‘me’ to live this life more and more. That is to say ‘I’ can step out from control. VINEETO: And this is truly wonderful. Cheers Vineeto July 5 2025 KUBA: Hi Vineeto, Thank you for those replies, I did read them but there has been a lot going on recently. There was in particular 2 events which happened over the past few days that “shook the boat” quite significantly so I have been somewhat all over the place. It seems it is quite a precarious place to be in when the controls are let go of, I remember around Christmas time last year it also seemed like ‘I’ was on the verge of disappearing and then an event involving a fellow actualist also shook ‘me’ significantly. It seems like there is a risk of going out of control, like ‘I’ am very vulnerable. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, You feel vulnerable because with the sophisticated ‘doer’ being descendant you can no longer automatically rely on your socio-cultural inwit, a.k.a. conscience, to not get into trouble, hence you now need to orient yourself to, and rely upon, the compass of pure intent. Ha, Richard used to say – Richard: The identity inhabiting this flesh and blood body all those years ago was wont to say, whenever ‘he’ would get a bit cocky about being on top of it all, that an everyday life situation would invariably tap ‘him’ behind the knees, so to speak, and bring ‘him’ back down-to-earth ... and that, furthermore, life was very good at doing just that. (Richard, Actual Freedom List, No. 68d, 17 October 2005) KUBA: Also with regards to intimacy experiences I find something similar, that when a lot is “going on” and I don’t quite know where to place myself, it is quite difficult to allow such interaction, it is like I am operating with a fragmented mind. VINEETO: Mmh, why do you need to “place myself” – isn’t your aim, informed by pure intent and especially in intimacy, to lose ‘yourself’? The “fragmented mind” could to be indicator of a remnant hesitation to lose ‘yourself’. That’s where the tyre meets the road, so to speak. KUBA: I am always amazed at Richard and his mettle, how he went through insanity to end up in the actual world, and with no precedent at all, what an incredible achievement. But it seems like when I am in that precarious place it could fall one way or another, actuality or insanity. VINEETO: I suggest to first get back to feeling good before you make an assessment about your state of mind. Then find your connection to pure intent and experience the beneficence and benevolence issuing forth from the purity of the stillness of this infinite universe. In this stillness you will find the confidence and certainty that nothing can go wrong. Cheers Vineeto September 17 2025 KUBA: Things are still going well, I can see now what I have been doing the past year, in that ‘I’ would creep up to the possibility of something happening and then ‘I’ would immediately arrogate ‘myself’ over the whole process and it would all become stillborn once again. Those things which you have mentioned to me Vineeto – such as standing still and letting the dust settle, this is making sense now. In that ‘I’ cannot end ‘myself’ but ‘I’ can actively set in motion a process that will result in ‘my’ demise. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, Indeed – the way to "actively set in motion a process that will result in ‘my’ demise" is described here … Richard: … ‘I’ deliberately and consciously and with knowledge aforethought set in motion a ‘process’ that will ensure ‘my’ demise (‘I’ do not really end ‘myself’ in that ‘I’ do not do the deed itself for an ‘I’ cannot end itself). What ‘I’ do, voluntarily and willingly, is to press the button which precipitates an oft-times alarming but always thrilling momentum that will result in ‘my’ inevitable self-immolation. What one does is that one dedicates oneself to the challenge of being here as the universe’s experience of itself. Peace-on-earth is the inevitable result ... because it is already here. ‘I’ was merely standing in the way of this always existing peace-on-earth from becoming apparent. The act of initiating this ‘process’ is altruism, pure and simple. (Richard, Actual Freedom List, No. 5, 8 January 1999). KUBA: So what I have been doing is acclimatising myself to remain in that place where all is wonderful, without moving in either direction. It’s fascinating because ‘I’ am standing still and yet a lot is going on. But somehow in the past this is precisely where ‘I’ would feel this need to pull the trigger on something, to move somewhere, do something. Perhaps because allowing this process is literally eroding at ‘my’ very foundations, it’s inviting the final situation where ‘I’ am exposed. There are still brief reversions into ‘me’ surviving again, but this is less and less now. I experience it as if there are no objections anymore but of course there must be something. BUT I understand now that whatever the last objection may be, ‘I’ am not to go looking for it/ solving it as the ‘doer’, it can come naturally to the surface whilst ‘I’ remain in the wonderful place. VINEETO: The more objections fall by the wayside, and the more you are acclimatising yourself to "that place where all is wonderful", the less ‘self’-centric you find yourself to be, because "that place where all is wonderful" is for everybody. In other words, such diminished ‘self’-centricity makes room for a genuine caring for your fellow human beings, who are all as much afflicted with being an alien identity as you are. Here is something you can try just for fun and pure enjoyment – • [Richard]: "(...) back when I was a normal man I came close to the loss of self already mentioned on several occasions (in my first marriage) only to instinctively pull-back, out of instantaneous fear at such imminence, as it intuitively seemed she would thus take over my mind and make me her slave for ever and a day. It was not until after the four-hour PCE, which initiated the process resulting in an actual freedom, that it became obvious to me what such loss of self actually meant. Accordingly, I deliberately set out to induce a PCE via giving myself completely to her – totally and utterly – whilst hovering indefinitely on that orgastic plateau which precedes an orgasm (something which I had discovered whilst pubescent). And then ... !Hey Presto! ... no separation whatsoever. (Incidentally, rather than that intuitive fear of thus being her slave coming true it was quite instructive to have her then relate how she had been fantasising about a current heart-throb pop singer all the while I was giving myself to her totally)". (Richard, List D, No. 6, 10 November 2009). Richard to Srinath: You will surely notice how giving oneself 100% is all about the ending of self-centredness – self-centred as in being both ego-centric and soul-centric – and has nowt to do with placing another’s happiness before one’s own [a.k.a. being an unselfish ‘self’]. (Richard, List D, Srinath, 28 July 2016). KUBA: I do have an inkling that it is related to the irrevocability of actual freedom, not that it is difficult or dangerous or anything of the kind rather that it is irrevocable – but that irrevocability, it is also wonderful… No way at all to ever go back to the land of lament. In fact if it was not irrevocable it would not be the final solution, it would not deliver the goods. Hehe Richard wrote that he would not change a single bit about the universe, I find that more and more these days, it is perfect. Richard: I would say to people, then, that were I to live that which the PCE’s had made apparent – as in an irrevocable permanency – for only five minutes I would then happily die. That is how precious an actual freedom from the human condition is. (Richard, List D, No. 7, 16 November 2009). VINEETO: And now that you are gradually coming to terms with the once-in-a-lifetime-decision to leave your ‘self’ behind (which, once taken, cannot be undone) the intermediate playground becomes obvious and the next sensible step … KUBA: It has become clear to me why stepping out from control is what happens prior to self-immolation, … VINEETO: With increasing diminishment of self-centredness/ self-centricity this is where the real fun, delight, marvel and wonder can fully flourish and full benefit of the actualism way of living reveals itself. Appreciation expands into wonder, amazement, joie de vivre, amiability, bonhomie, relish, gusto and naïve sensuosity and intimacy. Cheers Vineeto November 29 2025 KUBA: Hi Vineeto, VINEETO: What is the point in bewailing “the addiction to ‘being’ i.e. suffering” when you can do something practical to diminish this addiction? You already know how ‘to get down to brass tacks’, as they say. (Actualism, Actualvineeto, Kuba12, 23 November 2025). KUBA: Hehe yes I do know how to “get down to brass tacks” in fact I have used this practical knowledge recently to push into new territory, which is fabulous! I will use Geoffrey’s below quote to explain what I have done: RICHARD: I am full of admiration for the ‘me’ that dared to do such a thing. I owe all that I experience now to ‘me’. I salute ‘my’ audacity. (Richard’s Journal, Appendix 3, p. 282). Geoffrey: Who is that ‘me’, if not humanity? ‘I’ am humanity. And as such, ‘my’ destiny can be achieved. “Pleasant and wholesome” could become a refuge, a hiding place, for an individual ‘I’, a special ‘I’, fortified in dissociation from the dark soil of humanity by its acquired ‘actualist identity’. If one is to be humanity, then nothing of humanity shall be foreign to one. “The psyche is a frightful place” indeed. What is it that Richard admires about ‘me’? Daring, and audacity. [Emphasis by Kuba]. A few days ago I realised that although I did a good job of exploring, investigating and diminishing the “human constitution” I nevertheless stopped each time right when the “lid was off” and ‘I’ was experienced where ‘I’ am forever threatened, where the core of ‘me’ as an instinctual ‘being’ is seen. In fact what I see clearly now is that all the armchair philosophising and steeple chasing (anything but doing) was exactly that, a way to avoid seeing ‘myself’ were ‘I’ am forever threatened. And it’s actually quite impressive what efforts ‘I’ went to in order to prevent the bright light of awareness from being cast on the innermost recesses of ‘my’ being. Well this clicked the other day, that I could not say “nothing of humanity is foreign to me” because I have not dared to look into ‘my’ very ‘being’. And of course how could I ever look to give up that which I have not even intimately experienced, and this is ‘me’ after-all. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, What a marvellous report. I find it fascinating that you were only able to venture into the further, frightful regions of the psyche after you had irrevocably abandoned “armchair philosophising and steeple chasing” as viable alternatives. Imagination can provide this “ethereal/ non-existent/ imagined target of projected perfection” as Felix so aptly called it (Actualvineeto, Felix, 28 November 2025), but in the long run genuinely and experientially being here and enjoying /appreciating this moment of being alive remains forever outside the territory of one’s imagination. A genuine transition from the old spiritually-instilled ‘it’s-all-in-your-mind’ paradigm needs to be consciously abandoned to “get down to brass tacks”, in other words, to enter the down-to-earth wide and wondrous path. (I just thought I put in a plug for the first four words on the Actual Freedom homepage – actual, new, non-spiritual and down-to-earth. The tool tip next to the title gives more details). KUBA: So I proceeded into the “frightful place” of the psyche haha, not as a “one and done” situation but with the intent on maintaining a fascinated attention, to explore every nook and cranny of the very depths of ‘my’ being. I thought to myself that I have been tasked with the job of painting the most realistic image of the depths of ‘my’ psyche. I can certainly see why nerves of steel and daring are needed, at first it was as if I would go mad or collapse into an incoherent mess and yet once the storm calmed down somewhat I realised that 1 – These are passions and calentures not facts. 2 – These affective storms leave no emotional scars. In fact I found that after these deep explorations it would be as if someone just wiped a grimy window and now more freedom and more perfection and purity was shining through. VINEETO: This is a very worthwhile observation for any daring pioneer – “1 – These are passions and calentures not facts. 2 – These affective storms leave no emotional scars”. One could call your present enterprise “grime-cide”, and when it gets out, there will be plenty of activists who will mount a fervent protest campaign. If you find this unlikely here is something Peter reported in 2000 – Peter: … a recent television documentary provided me with yet another twist. A pioneering medical development has meant that it is possible to implant a simple hearing amplifier in infants who are born deaf such that they can hear and speak normally without needing to learn sign language. This implant has to be done before the age of about two in order for effective communication skills to develop normally. This medical procedure has been opposed by many in the deaf community with some even stridently accusing the doctors of genocide. The ‘genocide’ they see is the deliberate wiping out of the deaf community – as in eventual extinction. Their counter argument, offered as a concession, is that the procedure should not be done without the child’s consent. The problem with this is that the procedure needs to be done at an early age, prior to the development stage of communication skills in order for the child to develop without a handicap in speech and comprehension. This is not a moral or ethical objection but the deep-seated fear of a community or group feeling as though it is facing extinction. After the documentary, I was left befuddled at how deep the instinctual passions survival run. (Actualism, Peter, Actual Freedom List, Gary-e, 12.12.2000). Joking aside, keep in mind that you are not fighting or coercing your psyche but bringing about a cheerful and willing concurrence to ‘your’ long-yearned-for oblivion. KUBA: So I have succeeded where I failed time and time again in the past, I have stepped forward exactly where I would usually turn around. And I know from direct experience now that it is safe to proceed. Since daring to experience the “frightful place of the psyche” I have found myself more and more in this wondrous “no man’s land”, it is not Terra Actualis but it is certainly not reality anymore. And I find myself in this wondrous place without the affective storms getting in the way, or when they do come up they become just another opportunity for ‘me’ to be seen even clearer. VINEETO: This is simply amazing, wonderful, mirificent – I am grinning from ear to ear with delight at your success. I remember Pamela describing this period as being better than her 5-months PCE – Vineeto: In fact, in her period of being out-from-control Pamela commented on how much better this experience (of being out-from-control) was than her 5-months PCE and she explained that her PCE was a static experience while being out-from-control was exemplified by the progress of coming closer and closer to the actual world. I could not agree more. (Direct Route, Vineeto to James, 14 January 2010). Cheers Vineeto December 6 2025 KUBA: Driving to London again so I thought I would do a little report whilst Sonya is behind the wheel. There has been so much going on recently that I don’t think I could chronicle everything but I will note the main things. A few days ago I saw that the next step in the direction I was proceeding was to abandon hope. It took daring for sure, it meant no more “redemptive straws”, only extinction ahead. I found though that without hope, despair also took its leave. Without hope and despair to maintain ‘me’ I have found myself pulled ever closer to my destiny, which is more and more experienced to be right under my nose. This is what is different now, that before the “no man’s land” was experienced almost with a hint of eerie, an alien land where nothing familiar to ‘me’ existed. Whereas now it is more along the lines of what Srinath wrote – that this magical (actual) world is our rock solid inheritance. So there has been a lot of wondrous contemplation along these lines as well as experientially coming closer and closer to the destination. It’s funny that in the past I was so hell bent on trying to reduce actuality into a bite sized intellectual package, one that I could copy and paste here and there. But this is missing out on the main event, which is the actual living of it, and how could I possibly place all this wonder into a neat little package anyways. There has been some choppy waters and ‘I’ have come in to spoil things here and there, but it seems I have been able to take all this into my stride and carry on proceeding, and things have only been getting more and more wondrous. In fact this what I am living now is so worth all that I did in order to arrive here, and not even as a step along some map but as a wondrous adventure in itself. It looks like all the “rehearsing” I did over the past year was not a time wasted either, as I have been able to successfully orient myself in this new territory. But back then I did not want to be on the ride, the resistance was completely unpalatable. Whereas this what is happening now, I would not have it any other way. And it’s something that has to be lived, the wonder and the enjoyment and appreciation possible. As a side note I notice that this wondrous enjoyment and appreciation is anhedonic, which means that it can be completely off the scales and yet it can never be too much. It looks like all the various things which could possibly be in place, are in place. I find no compulsion for the doer to come in and to try to force it to happen. As Richard said only the utter fullness can do it. What ‘I’ have left to do is to give permission (joyfully and wholeheartedly), to allow it to happen. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, Great to hear from you. You seem to be having a grand time. I am reminded of Peter saying quite fittingly in the Actual Freedom Library, Hope – Peter: “Above the door of the Actual Freedom Trust offices (if there ever is such a thing) will be a sign that reads ‘Abandon Hope All Ye Who Enter Here’.” Of course, there are no ‘Actual Freedom Trust offices’ but the call to “Abandon Hope All Ye Who Enter Here” is applicable for every actualist at a certain stage in their process, and what a benefit has it been to you! I am also reminded of another quote which I had already sent you before, but perhaps you can now obtain some additional experiential benefit from it – Richard: Having the “courage of your convictions” has nothing to do with believing, trusting, hoping or having faith that it be possible. I, for one, never believed, trusted, hoped or had faith that it was possible, for such an action of believing, trusting, hoping and having faith perpetuates the believer, the truster, the hoper and the faithful. On the contrary, I could no longer believe that it was not possible – which is a different action entirely to believing, trusting, hoping and having faith that it is possible – thus dispensing with the believer, the truster, the hoper and the faithful. Do you see this? For example: Doubt is believing it not to be possible ... doubt is actually an action of believing, which supports the believer. Faith is believing that it is possible ... which also supports the believer ... and thus, either way, the believer pushes freedom away into an ever elusive future. All this stemmed from my peak experience in which I experienced the purity and the perfection of life itself – here and now – and thus saw that what others had perceived as being our reward after physical death already existed ... at this moment in time and this place in space. Thus I ceased believing that life on earth was a grim business with only scant moments of reprieve ... yet I did not start believing in perfection. To repeat: I stopped believing, period. All sorrow and malice stems from the activity of believing ... which arises from the believer. ‘I’, as a psychological entity, can only believe – or disbelieve – in possibilities and impossibilities. In the peak experience ‘I’ temporarily abdicated the throne and I knew, by direct experience, that freedom was already actual. It was ‘I’ that was the problem, not the absence of perfection. When ‘I’ ceased to be, perfection became, as always, apparent. By believing perfection to be possible ‘I’ perpetuate ‘myself’. ‘I’, by ‘my’ very presence, inhibit that splendid perfection becoming apparent. Perfection is already always here. Yet ‘I’, by believing in a remembered perfection, chase an ever-elusive chimera into an ever-receding future. Thus one stands still and does nothing but watch the dust settle all around ... and perfection, which is only of the moment, becomes apparent. ‘I’ have ceased to be. By “doing nothing” I mean neither believing nor disbelieving; neither having faith nor having doubt; neither trusting nor distrusting; neither hoping nor despairing. In short, one’s superb confidence and over-weening optimism precipitates ‘my’ demise ... ‘I’ do not make freedom happen ... ‘I’ allow the universe to “disappear” the ‘me’ that I was ... and perfection has become apparent. ‘I’ did not invoke perfection, for it already is here ... and it is here now, not off into the future. It may have taken some time to eventuate, as ‘I’ got whittled away, yet when that time came, it was already here ... because it is always now. To sum up: ‘I’ do not make perfection happen because it is already always here. What ‘I’ do is to “stand still” and unreservedly allow ‘my’ eventual demise to occur. To do this, ‘I’ cease believing, hoping, trusting and having faith ... without falling into disbelief, despair, distrust or doubt. ‘I’, having the courage of ‘my’ convictions – which is the confidence born out of the solid knowing as evidenced in the peak experience – thus developing a superb confidence and an over-weening optimism. Thus nothing can stand in ‘my’ way in this, the adventure of a life-time. (Richard, Private email, March 1999) Cheers Vineeto December 13 2025 FELIX: Hello to you both, lovely to hear from you. Kuba , your writing has been excellent lately – I’m not sure if it is different from before or whether my capacity to appreciate it has increased (or maybe both!). I don’t feel competitive anymore. It’s funny hey, how much fear really pushes one around internally. It fuels certain lines of thought propels particular strategies, closes certain doors of enquiry, and prevents clear thinking or seeing. It’s powerful and it acts from a place of trying to keep one safe, even though it’s actually doing the bloody opposite usually! VINEETO: Hi Felix, A splendid analysis, if I may say so. FELIX: Vineeto, thanks for your encouragement and apt references and anecdotes. I’m relishing your writing and very appreciative of your contribution. My diminished fear has removed the bee out of my bonnet (and the chip off my shoulder) regarding actualism and suddenly it’s a real thrill and pleasure to be involved with others and benefit from your particular expertise and insight as well. To what you wrote, indeed it’s amazing the degree to which this fear operated, unseen. To me it seems the strong feelings of fear protected and bolstered a very strong sense of ego – and that this ego (operating primarily as a very powerful sense of control/ doership) would not allow itself to be “captured” or discovered, so to speak. VINEETO: Your different way of writing certainly indicates that a noisy “bee” and a large “chip” have disappeared, and now a naiveté prevails which can consider the benefit of others as well as your own. It’s a precious time when your brain is rearranging itself to the new circumstances, and the thing right now to pay special attentiveness to any subtle machinations in the background trying to create a new persona to fill this beneficial gap created by the diminished chunk of fear, which has disappeared only a few days ago. It’s a common strategy of ‘me’ to replace the old persona with a new one, hence my cautionary note. What you can do instead is to delightedly settle in and feel at home with this budding naiveté where you are not quite sure what is happening but are nevertheless thrilled and fascinated to be alive and let more and more life live you. FELIX: As much of the actualism website is dedicated to the necessity to look at feelings/ soul rather than thought/ego, I’ll clarify that I’m not saying that feelings weren’t the culprit … just that it was my own evasive sense of ‘I’ that seemed to want to perpetuate itself. And this very pointed and inflamed sense of “I” was primarily fuelled by intense fear … mostly around things like criticism, status, perception, self in relation to others (as opposed to lions or tigers which would be more worthy of such fear!). VINEETO: The reason for mainly using “feelings/ soul rather than thought/ego” in the writings on the website is because the equivalence of thought and ego, and therefore vilification of thought, is the way of the old, spiritual paradigm intending to lure you into the pursuit of ego-death aka enlightenment, whilst ignoring the vital part that the instinctual feelings, particularly the so-called ‘good’ feelings play in the creation of misery and mayhem. Have you ever considered that this “very strong sense of ego” is/was also responsible for your self-castigation and the self-inflicted stress you experienced? In other words, you were caught in the dichotomy of pride and humility, ego and self-castigation with no tangible resolution. Or in Richard’s words – Richard: In actual freedom both sorrow and malice are eliminated, along with the ego and the soul. Evil does not exist in the world, it exists only in the human psyche ... eliminate the psyche in its entirety and you have eliminated both Good and Evil. (‘Good’ is a psychic phenomenon created to combat ‘Evil’). As the Enlightened Beings have only transcended duality, they have to cling to ‘The Good’ in order to resist ‘The Bad’. Hence also their pacifism. (Richard, List A, No. 7, No. 01) * Richard: By the time I had worked my way through this philosophical dilemma [of pacifism] I had to turn my sights upon the last thing that stood between me and an actual freedom. I would have to let go of the deeply ingrained concept of ‘The Good’. For this to happen I would have to eliminate ‘The Bad’ in me, or else I would be likely to go off the rails and run amok. Little did I realise that it was ‘The Good’ that kept ‘The Bad’ in place. I was soon to find this out. [Emphasis added]. (Richard, List B, No. 31, 7 Mar 2000) In other words, all of it, both the ‘good’ and the ‘bad’ and the battle between the two are part of the old paradigm, while being naïve and enjoying and appreciating being alive is the new paradigm. FELIX: In that context it makes sense now why I have been so intensely analytical – an “overthinker” who was trying to attempt a top-down, intellectual coup on my entire system (with fairly disastrous results I might add). Luckily the fact I have been aware over the years, at least as a “witness”, has also given me insight into the kinds of routes to not bother going down again … such as intense self-improvement, comparison to others, self-castigation, stress/ neuroticism, misanthropy, to name a few. In my intense insecurity I was always attempting to gain some kind of imagined psychological dominion over others to find “safety”, often through ambition and self-judgement. Being perceived to be less than others or an object of criticism from the herd was extremely threatening stuff, like an annihilation. It wasn’t always just intense fear, often it came as a constant gnawing anxiety. And my desires were just as fuelled by fear as well – the desire to be good enough, to evade criticism, to be infallible, to achieve, to be a free spirit etc etc. Desire seems to be the flip side of fear. VINEETO: Now that you describe it in all its painful details – what a blessed disappearance of these “feelings, belief structures and behaviours”. They have conspired in concerted effort like a tight-woven web to keep you imprisoned … until … until you were so fed up with suffering and had gathered enough courage to look straight into the core (which is far more than ego) – Felix: Now I see that everything I do, I do out of fear. And I think I am seeing there is something beyond it. FELIX: It’s weird how certain feelings, belief structures and behaviours can disappear. I’m not sure I’ve ever experienced such a big “chunk” of my issues going at once. There is some clean up still, certain habits and automatic reactions and such, but the main engine seems to be really disengaged. With that gone, I’m finding there is an “underneath” to all of this that I can sense. I’m closer (at times) if I can put it that way. There’s a sense of softness, of sensuousness, that makes this moment liveable in a different way to what I’m accustomed to. It feels so safe as well, and with that safety I feel emotionally open and there is a sincerity that is a pleasure to feel. A sweetness! And with that sweetness the sense of intensity around the need to become free has become more, not less – even though my feeling-led intensity has rapidly diminished. At times when I lean into the appreciation of this potentiality the tears come to my eyes. I don’t want humans to suffer any longer, and I see that suffering all around … in news articles, in overheard conversations, in personal interactions, in the comment sections of social media platforms, in documentaries, in fictional series. I can “feel” it – I know what I am seeing in others when they complain, when they grieve, when they fight, when they are in shock, when they are bored. I know it all, I know it from where it is often hardest to see of all, in me. And while this is good back pressure, I’m listening when you say that “the actualism method is enjoying and appreciating, not diving into deep emotions for the sake of it.” There’s a fun and smooooth enjoyment in making contact with This Moment of Being Alive. I’m tasting it here and there, sinking in slowly to a sense of delight. I want the full shebang but I know not to force either … I enjoy as is available to me at the time, based on the (physical/ sensorial) circumstances as they are. I’m enjoying as I write this. Indeed there is a sense of being a moth drawn to a flame. Honestly, it makes me want total death … haha – which would be alarming to most if said on the street or to “loved ones” but I say it without any depression or morbidity whatsoever. To suffer unconscious feeling cycles and to be danced around like a marionette by “life circumstances” is much closer to something morbid, surely. Whereas to be right where one is, without any fears or fantasies, and enjoying and appreciating what reveals itself to have been under one’s nose – is to be much more alive already. It makes me want to experience more and invites rememoration of the fact I have already experienced (psychological) death before, and it was not only safe but totally wondrous and perfect. VINEETO: Indeed, when that sweetness of spontaneous appreciation pervades you (when pure intent is tangibly experienced like an actually occurring stream of benevolence and benignity that originates in the vast and utter stillness that is the essential character of the universe itself) then all you want to do is keep allowing it and keep appreciating it. Richard: “(...). One can bring about a benediction from that perfection and purity which is the essential character of the universe by contacting and cultivating one’s original state of naiveté. Naiveté is that intimate aspect of oneself that is the nearest approximation that one can have of actual innocence – there is no innocence so long as there is a rudimentary self – and constant awareness of naive intimacy results in a continuing benediction. This blessing allows a connection to be made between oneself and the perfection and purity as is evidenced in a PCE. This connection I call pure intent. Pure intent endows one with the ability to operate and function safely in society without the incumbent social identity with its ever-vigilant conscience. Thus reliably rendered virtually innocent and relatively harmless by the benefaction of the perfection and purity, one can begin to dismantle the now-redundant social identity. The virtual magnanimity endowed by pure intent obviates the necessity for a social identity, born out of society’s values, to be extant and controlling the wayward self with a societal conscience”. (Richard, List B, No. 31, 21 July 1998). By the way, you have not yet “experienced (psychological) death before” – in a PCE the identity is merely in temporary abeyance, ready to spring into action at any time. But you know from your PCEs what the actual world after ‘your’ demise is like. Gary: What is it about the PCE that holds the ‘me’ in abeyance? Richard: It is a two-way street ... it is both the perfection of the universe, as evidenced in the PCE, and the sincerity of ‘me’, as is evidenced by the PCE occurring, which does the trick. This universe has a built-in propensity for the best to emerge, so it is inevitable that the best will happen ... given ‘my’ concurrence. We do not live in an inert universe. Gary: Is it correct to say that ‘I’ am in abeyance during the PCE? Richard: That was the word that occurred to me to describe the experience ... ‘suspended’, maybe (as in ‘the operation has been suspended until further notice’)? Gary: Or is it more accurate to say that ‘I’ have vacated the scene completely and totally? Richard: Oh, yes, there is a marked absence of ‘me’ during the experience ... perhaps it is more correct to say that it is after the experience, when ‘I’ reappear, that in hindsight it becomes obvious that ‘I’ was in abeyance? Gary: What causes ‘me’ to return? Richard: Because ‘I’ have a job to do: ‘I’ am going to make the most noble sacrifice that ‘I’ can make for this body and that body and every body ... for ‘I’ am what ‘I’ hold most dear. It is ‘my’ moment of glory. It is ‘my’ crowning achievement ... it makes ‘my’ petty life all worth while. It is not an event to be missed ... to physically die without having experienced what it is like to become dead is such a waste of a life. (Richard, Actual Freedom List, Gary, 15 August 2000) FELIX: I keep thinking of the Shakespeare quote “Tis a consummation devoutly to be wish’d” from Hamlet’s famous soliloquy. I can’t help think what a pleasure awaits, To Not Be. VINEETO: Ha, Shakespeare – whoever wrote Hamlet under this nom-de-guerre – knew nothing of an actual freedom, he could only point to an imaginary fantasy of a life after death. You, on the other hand, can consciously give permission for the actualism process to commence – Richard: Being out-from-control/in a different-way-of-being is quite daunting to contemplate as an on-going EE marks the end of the beginning of the end of ‘me’ and the commencement of the actualism process – as distinct from the actualism method – wherein a momentum not of ‘my’ doing takes over and an inevitability sets in; in an on-going EE the actual world has the effect of impelling one towards it – like a moth to a candle as the overarching benignity and benevolence of the actual increasingly operates such as to render ‘my’ felicity/ innocuity increasingly redundant; this is where being the nearest a ‘self’ can be to innocence – the naiveté located betwixt the core of being and the sexual centre (where one is both likeable and liking) – is attached as if with a golden thread or clew to the purity of actual innocence; an on-going EE is, thus, where one becomes acclimatised to benignity and benevolence and the resultant blitheness because the purity of the actual is so powerful that it would ‘blow the fuses’ if one was to venture into this territory ill-prepared. (Richard, List D, No. 12, 9 December 2009a). * Richard: In effect, the actualism process is what ensues when one gets out from being under control, via having given oneself prior permission to have one’s life live itself (i.e., sans the controlling doer), and a different way of being comes about (i.e., where the beer is the operant) – whereupon a thrilling out-from-control momentum takes over and an inevitability sets in – whereafter there is no pulling back (hence the reluctance in having it set in motion) as once begun it is nigh-on unstoppable. Then one is in for the ride of a lifetime! (Richard, List D, Claudiu4, 28 January 2016). Cheers Vineeto
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