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(List D refers to Richard’s List D
Vineeto’s Correspondence with Chrono on Discuss Actualism Forum
VINEETO: Indeed, this is the very way the actualism method works in a nutshell. By following a self-less inclination you are having fun and vice versa, felicitous and innocuous feelings don’t provide fodder for ‘me’. CHRONO: Much simpler when it’s actually applied as written
haha. I have been reflecting more on what it means to be sincere VINEETO: Hi Chrono, Let me stop you right there. Where you are going with this is that you can never “be in accord with the fact” until you are actually free. This is called a red herring and stops you from even starting. To be sincere, i.e. “in accord with the fact”, means you don’t deceive yourself when a good or bad feeling interferes with enjoyment and appreciation. Therefore you are as honest as you can regarding the feeling which is happening at this very moment of writing this – for example something like “ahh, I can never be sincere, it’s too difficult, I rather stay as I am”. Sincerely acknowledging what is happening you’ll eventually sort it out with the intent to being happy and harmless – and you have demonstrated many times before that you can do that excellently. If you notice imagination happening like creating future scenarios, you sincerely acknowledge that knowing something imagined is not a fact. CHRONO: And my struggle seems to be in seeing that I can never match this effortless perfection. Highlighting the belief that ‘I’ can be perfect. ‘I’ can only allow it through imitating it. ‘I’ can never be it. I feel viscerally conflicted or torn. There must be another belief why I do not simply incline each moment towards it. Perhaps I am jumping the gun again. VINEETO: Of course, if you want to arrive before you start it’s a clear indication you are “jumping the gun” … and sincerely inquiring why you are going on this side-track will inevitably provide the answer and then you sort out what it right in front of you. Remember to get back to feeling good first. * VINEETO: It’s wonderful, isn’t it. To be ‘someone’ is the modus operandi for which you have been conditioned since childhood, backed up by the instinctual imperative of survival – but is this really still necessary? As you say “it’s actually enjoyable when I don’t”. It is also possible because you can be naïve with all your adult sensibility intact. CHRONO: I’m not able to even think of any reason why it’s necessary aside from the usual provisions of the feelings of warmth and belonging. I find it more enjoyable to be happy and harmless. VINEETO: Excellent. What about the “feelings of warmth and belonging” – are you game to boldly go where you haven’t gone before and naïvely explore intimacy between fellow human beings in lieu of “warmth and belonging”? * VINEETO: Yes, the real-world rules, morals and dogmas operate in opposites and have only two alternatives. There is a third alternative. CHRONO: Weirdly has taken me a longer time to figure that out experientially. I just had this realization about sexual desire and why I have “trouble” with it. It occurs in every human being to some extent, so why am I making a big deal out of its occurrence? And I finally realized it, it’s because of repression. There’s a guilt surrounding it as I mentioned previously. But what if there was no guilt? Then I am somehow morally reprehensible. As I previously saw that ‘I’ cannot end ‘me’ and ‘I’ am already born this way, then there’s no taking blame for my feeling this desire. I understand better now where you say:
VINEETO: To ease the pressure of what was originally repressed may take some persistence because repression happened not only because of the “feeling of guilt” but also because it is something unfamiliar to be explored/ experienced as to what happens when you lift the lid, so to speak. It helps to be a friend to yourself and be gentle and consciously enjoy the adventure, without back-pressure from yourself. Richard’s second part of the quote explains why it has never really been allowed to be explored naïvely. CHRONO: And also this section from Article 2 in Richard’s Journal I am able to see in operation:
I am understanding now that the shift to intimacy is a different game altogether from the one that gives sexual desire a central role. That is, my focus on getting rid of it won’t work. VINEETO: Indeed, half the job is to sort out what doesn’t work. The process of getting accustomed/ familiar with naïvely and gently shifting to intimacy in practice, might sometimes appear a balancing act between “holy” and “vulgar”. Don’t fall for either, keep looking for the fun and benevolent way (to yourself and your partner) – the third alternative. * VINEETO: Indeed, being in control is the sole function of this contingent ‘being’, ‘me’, the entity which does not exist in its own right and needs to control to prevent being exposed as such. ‘You’ need to keep working hard to justify ‘your’ existence, whereas “it’s actually enjoyable when I don’t”, when you can allow yourself to be what you are. You lessen control by progressively allowing the obstacles to enjoyment and appreciation to disappear via attentiveness and (if necessary) investigation – and thus by imitating the actual. CHRONO: Yes I recently noticed as it was happening how much that insults and compliments make up this being a someone. If ‘my’ whole point is to survive, then I’m only taking these on personally to survive. And now I have some more cues to look out for. VINEETO: Ha, it is indeed so, when you look at the content of what your “belonging” really consists of – “insults and compliments” – punishment and reward – made valid by the feeling of power or loss thereof. Another confirmation that you were right when you said “being a “someone” is a serious business” … and ”it’s actually enjoyable when I don’t”. * VINEETO: I don’t know what holds authority, anyone’s authority, in place for you. For
‘Vineeto’ the very justification for any authority disappeared in one fell swoop with the startling apperceptive
discovery – <snipped> CHRONO: Actually the only authority I can think of is the authority of Humanity through morals, ethics, and judgements. But it all hinges on the idea of caring. I have been reflecting again on what it means to be caring in the real world vs being carefree and considerate. Can I be carefree AND considerate? I am reading the chapter titled “It is possible to be sensitive without being vulnerable”. And being ‘vulnerable’ in the real world is perhaps the gateway into what real world caring is. VINEETO: The reason the described PCE (now snipped) was such a consequential event for ‘Vineeto’ because ‘she’ realised that every and all authority people assume stems from some god’s authority – god is the ultimate source for what is right and wrong, bad and good (=heaven and hell). All the values by which humans are socialised originate from the ‘Tried and Failed’ legacy of enlightened beings, gods and goddesses. Hence to realise that there is no room for god in an actual infinite, and perfect, universe, and the justification and ultimate origin of right and wrong disappears. The same applies to your “authority of Humanity” and “the idea of caring”. While being caring and considerate are aspects of being harmless, the word “caring” in the real world is generally synonymous with feeling caring, i.e. giving out affective vibes of caring, sympathy and compassion, together with or even instead of practical caring. This is because humanity’s idea of caring is tightly linked to “putting the other before oneself”, being compassionate and self-less. Hence the aim of being harmless together, including the considering the consequences of your words and actions might have, will a clearer guidance for what you want to be –
CHRONO: But what does it mean to actually care? VINEETO:
You can find some more on intimacy and caring in Vineeto, Selected Correspondence, Intimacy CHRONO: I was having an afternoon at work when there was a bout of increased delight. And I remembered that one of the objections that I feel is that ‘I’ need to be here to protect this physical body. When all of a sudden I realized that ‘I’ do not exist to protect this physical body. ‘I’ exist to protect ‘me’. The physical body is secondary to ‘me’. All of ‘my’ caring is self-centred. And I became aware of this most fundamental confusion. This just hit me in a very visceral way and I felt a shiver at the bottom of my spine. And I’ve just been aware since of all of ‘my’ caring since and the inherent self-centeredness of it. VINEETO: Well spotted – “‘I’ exist to protect ‘me’”. Once you are aware of this fact it is much simpler to discover the identity’s tricks and diversions. As always, there is a way of interacting being less self-centred, i.e. being naïvely harmless and considerate and preferring/ valuing intimacy over sexual prowess. CHRONO: Recently a different issue has cropped up and has taken
the place of previous issues. I am seeing indignation and slights featuring more. I for some reason am feeling more
keenly aware of iniquities in every day interactions. I am more aware of ‘injustice’ and ‘unfairness’. I feel
it really deeply. Both in daily interactions and in an overall rule of the world way. Perhaps these are issues I have
not looked at in-depth enough. (I’m writing at work so I’ll have to re-visit my response). VINEETO: Can it be that you notice indignation more because you discovered how much “‘my’ whole point is to survive”? You may find this familiar –
* VINEETO: Are you asking if the habit of being a ‘victim’ is related to a “need for power”? It certainly is, it is the flip-side of the same power structure, which, being sourced in the instinctual passions of fear and aggression, is operating ubiquitously. CHRONO: EDIT: Yes I was thinking they’re related. I can see it being a flip side of the same power structure but am trying to see the third alternative in it. I keep thinking then I’ll be taken advantage of. Actually I think my current issue is related to this being a ‘victim’ and is related to the need for power. Will have to reflect and write more on it soon. VINEETO: Ha, the role of being a ‘victim’ at first appears more virtuous but it is only the other side of aggression inherent to the instinctual passions in each and every feeling being. If you can recognize this and affectively acknowledge it, then neither repressing nor expressing the feeling might allow the third alternative to hove into view. Also the question ‘why do I need power’ may be interesting to contemplate. Personally, I have no power whatsoever. * VINEETO: By choosing to be naïvely happy and harmless you voluntarily withdraw from the battlefield (not as a pacifist or virtue-hunter) but as someone who prefers (i.e. values more) getting along in a beneficial way with your fellow human beings. CHRONO: This does make sense and I am thinking on it further so
that I’m not repressing or expressing indignation in some cunning way. VINEETO: A reminder before you are getting too deep into thinking about the serious problems of life –
VINEETO: Where you are going with this is that you can never “be in accord with the fact” until you are actually free. This is called a red herring and stops you from even starting. To be sincere, i.e. “in accord with the fact”, means you don’t deceive yourself when a good or bad feeling interferes with enjoyment and appreciation. Therefore you are as honest as you can regarding the feeling which is happening at this very moment of writing this – for example something like “ahh, I can never be sincere, it’s too difficult, I rather stay as I am”. Sincerely acknowledging what is happening you’ll eventually sort it out with the intent to being happy and harmless – and you have demonstrated many times before that you can do that excellently. If you notice imagination happening like creating future scenarios, you sincerely acknowledge that knowing something imagined is not a fact. CHRONO: Hi Vineeto, Ah I see now how what I wrote can be construed that way. What I was trying to convey with the
phrase “to be in accord with the fact” was “imitate the actual” (by being happy and harmless).
That is, from the perspective of the actual, the identity is an illusion and not actually existing. But that doesn’t
change the fact that it does “exist” (this reminds me of “drawing the line between feeling and
fact” VINEETO: Hi Chrono, Thank you for your reply and explaining what you wanted to convey. In the correspondence you linked to, Rick was attempting to cunningly prove that feelings are actual, therefore his whole line of reasoning was polluted. What I meant by saying ‘sincerely acknowledging what is happening’ was more explicitly explained in this snippet of ‘Vineeto’s’ correspondence –
Perhaps the word ‘honest’ is more unambiguous for you when it comes to acknowledging, and if necessary, investigating, one’s feelings and beliefs in the process of ‘imitating the actual’? When Richard explains sincerity, he certainly did not indicate that only someone actually free or in a PCE can be sincere –
“Seeing the fact (of anything)” requires honesty, intelligence and perspicacity, being authentic, genuine and straightforward, but in general not a ‘self’-less experience. If sincerity was only possible during a ‘self’-less experience then how could sincerity be the key to naiveté? It would be putting the cart before the horse. It seems you are unnecessarily complicating (sophisticating) the matter. * VINEETO: Of course, if you want to arrive before you start it’s a clear indication you are “jumping the gun” … and sincerely inquiring why you are going on this side-track will inevitably provide the answer and then you sort out what it right in front of you. Remember to get back to feeling good first. CHRONO: Yes I do seem to have that tendency to want to viscerally “jump over” issues. Basically not looking at what’s right in front of me right now but instead trying to jump ahead to know what it is and consequently having the opposite effect. Or the other thing I try to do sometimes is force the seeing and that also has the unintended effect. Very cunning I think. But I’ve been slowly bringing each one into light and these discussions are helping me see what I have been doing. Once again seeing that there are no shortcuts. And I ask myself why I would want to “jump over” and I can feel an angst and agitation continuously operating. Perhaps it will come more to light the more I question it and allow it. VINEETO: Here is something ‘Vineeto’ discovered at the time –
It’s fascinating when you discover how “angst and agitation” are nearly continuously operating like a back-ground engine which keeps ‘me’ in existence. Again, it helps to put everything on a ‘it doesn’t really matter’ basis – this will slowly diminish the urgent quality of your instinctual passions and thus the need to control every move of your life. This passionate urgency seduces ‘you’ to fight against ‘yourself’ in the name of actualism, whereas when you recognize this pattern, you can get back to naïvely enjoying and appreciating being here, genuinely ‘imitating the actual’. Don’t look for problems (which in itself can be an addiction) – you only need to investigate when you are not felicitous/ innocuous, which your ongoing attentiveness will inform you of. CHRONO: I recently became more aware of a belief operating under this which goes like “there’s no way that this is possible (actual freedom)”. When I ask myself why, it felt like then that would mean I have been suffering my whole life for no reason. This is like some sunk cost fallacy and I know that’s how it is for everyone but I really believed that to be the truth (that life is supposed to be grim). It occurs to me “life could have been easy this whole time?”. I’m embarrassed because I have been serious my whole life and I didn’t have to be. Now I see that the belief morphed to a “I wish my suffering meant something” along with a strange feeling of running out of time. VINEETO: Ha, you discover something that could be life-changing – that life is meant to be fun – and what does the identity do, automatically, ‘you’ make it into a problem! It’s a natural ‘self’-protecting reaction, and only informs you how cunning ‘I’ am when feeling in danger of exposure. Recognize the silliness and humour in the situation and voilà, the problem disappears. * VINEETO: What about the “feelings of warmth and belonging” – are you game to boldly go where you haven’t gone before and naïvely explore intimacy between fellow human beings in lieu of “warmth and belonging”? CHRONO: I am indeed, and the adventure part of it is that I turn away from all that I have known and take a step in the direction that I have never gone before. I can feel an automatic reaction then that to turn away means that “it’s a cold and lonely world out there” but I won’t fall for that this time. VINEETO: Yes, you are getting better and better at this game of finding out how ‘you’ tick and how to distinguish between reactive emotion-backed thought and intelligence in action. (…) CHRONO: I can see how it can be a balancing act between “holy” and “vulgar” as I have noted on many occasions that libidinal feelings flip into feelings of deep revulsion and disgust. And perhaps that’s all because of how I’ve approached sexuality. I’ve noticed that I actually do have this belief of uninhibited sensuality and sexuality being “vulgar”. Even writing this I am getting doubts whether I should because I am saying something I shouldn’t be saying. I’m being animalistic by considering it. It’s most likely ‘my’ way of interpreting where I have not gone before and intuiting what would happen were I to lift the lid. But I am aware of this now in a way I was not before and as you suggested I will not fall for either and look for the third alternative. VINEETO: This quote from Richard’s journal * CHRONO: I related a lot to what you wrote here:
Also here you wrote:
As I was thinking on this, I noticed that I have some belief that to see my partner as “just another human being” makes them not special. And I am wondering what makes them special if they are just another human being. I realized that it’s the fact that they want to spend time with me and I want to spend time with them. And I am able to appreciate this fact much more now. Everything else is about ‘me’. VINEETO: Yes, “just another human being” is more than a “belief” – when ‘I’ am in charge, that is how ‘I’ perceive and assess everyone, including oneself – nothing special, either with grey-coloured glasses – gloomy and hostile to ‘me’ – or rose-coloured glasses – loving and trusting towards ‘me’, and hence extensions of ‘me’ “part of ‘my’ world”, as ‘Vineeto’ said. In the second quote ‘she’ described what happened during a PCE, an apperceptive seeing. It was very startling and entirely new to ‘her’ experience. * VINEETO: The reason the described PCE ( The same applies to your “authority of Humanity” and “the idea of caring”. While being caring and considerate are aspects of being harmless, the word “caring” in the real world is generally synonymous with feeling caring, i.e. giving out affective vibes of caring, sympathy and compassion, together with or even instead of practical caring. This is because humanity’s idea of caring is tightly linked to “putting the other before oneself”, being compassionate and self-less. Ha, the role of being a ‘victim’ at first appears more virtuous but it is only the other side of aggression inherent to the instinctual passions in each and every feeling being. If you can recognize this and affectively acknowledge it, then neither repressing nor expressing the feeling might allow the third alternative to hove into view. Also the question ‘why do I need power’ may be interesting to contemplate. Personally, I have no power whatsoever. CHRONO: Yes I did note that God had been the ultimate authority for ‘Vineeto’ and I can see it all come together for me right now. This need for power, authority, and caring seem to be linked and it has clicked for me in the last week. This is because as I’ve noted before that I’ve unwittingly been applying the “putting others before oneself” injunction. It’s actually related to my being a ‘victim’. It does appear that being a ‘victim’ is more virtuous in the real world and gives the false feeling that I am ‘powerless’. I am actually also exerting power by being a ‘victim’ but just not in an overt way. And I noticed that inherent to being a ‘victim’ is the belief that one is then worthy of being saved from harm and suffering. Almost like that by choosing to be a ‘victim’, I am being humble. And an extension of that is the belief that one can be saved by some Higher Authority or Saviour. It is odd because I’ve never seen myself as believing in some Higher Power but I am acting and being as if there was. Perhaps there is more to unfold here. VINEETO: Indeed, it is excellent you start seeing the bigger pattern, and how ultimately all ‘right’ and ‘wrong’, ‘good’ and ‘bad’ injunctions stem from the ‘Tried and Failed’ paradigm Richard described in his Journal, Article Two, you quoted above. When you understand this in its totality, it loses its virtue, attraction and power over you. CHRONO: I can see how pernicious “putting others before oneself” is because it takes all eyes off ‘me’ and ‘I’ can wreak further havoc. I was wondering “why do I need power” and the answer was only in relation to me being a ‘victim’. Where I am not a ‘victim’ (or an aggressor), there is no need for power. I can fully see what it is to be harmless now. And the subsequent discussions on it have clarified a lot. I can see how setting the bar as ‘no malicious feelings present’ does not necessarily mean that I am being harmless. It’s self-centricity itself which is the issue. And in practice I can already see how much more ease and harmony there is. Making harmlessness a top and first priority easily allows happiness to follow because I am considering both myself and the other. VINEETO: Ah, this is wonderful. Diminishing ‘self’-centricity allows you to be increasingly naïve, liking yourself and others and discovering how much fun being alive really is. Here is a snippet from ‘Vineeto’ you might relate to –
* VINEETO: Can it be that you notice indignation more because you discovered how much ‘‘my’ whole point is to survive“? You may find this familiar –
CHRONO: It does make sense now that I think about it. It seems much of my childhood hurts have been held on passionately deep down and are the source of much of my railing against “the system”. I was on a trip with my partner this past week and we finished watching “Mr. Robot” and I related very deeply with the protagonist especially towards the end. I felt his hurts as my own and the indignation and hurt reached fever pitch. This post from Richard is indeed very familiar and timely as it helped backing out of it. I find myself sometimes thinking that I am supposed to hold onto these hurts and slights, otherwise I will let people walk all over me and take advantage of me. But I am an adult now aren’t I? Something further to unfold here which I will come back to. VINEETO: Ha, here you have the old paradigm’s dichotomy again, being either angry/ indignant or being taken advantage of. It will be such a relief when you finally let go of “childhood hurts” and “railing against “the system””. Instead of looking for/ relying on emotional reactions to what you ought to do or avoid, why not make it a habit to assess each situation intelligently, in line with pure intent in order to work out if you can safely let go of your childhood hurts and resentments.
* VINEETO: A reminder before you are getting too deep into thinking about the serious
problems of life – (snipped quote re humour CHRONO: Also a great timely reminder haha. VINEETO:
VINEETO: “Seeing the fact (of anything)” requires honesty, intelligence and
perspicacity, being authentic, genuine and straightforward, but in general not a ‘self’-less experience. If
sincerity was only possible during a ‘self’-less experience then how could sincerity be the key to naiveté? CHRONO: Yes that makes sense and I certainly have been complicating it. So I have been looking at what I feel and acknowledging it without trying to jump ahead or force anything. VINEETO: Hi Chrono, Thank you for your reply. I am pleased you can see the point I was making. * VINEETO: Here is something ‘Vineeto’ discovered at the time – (snipped) It’s fascinating when you discover how “angst and agitation” are nearly continuously operating like a back-ground engine which keeps ‘me’ in existence. Again, it helps to put everything on a ‘it doesn’t really matter’ basis – this will slowly diminish the urgent quality of your instinctual passions and thus the need to control every move of your life. This passionate urgency seduces ‘you’ to fight against ‘yourself’ in the name of actualism, whereas when you recognize this pattern, you can get back to naïvely enjoying and appreciating being here, genuinely ‘imitating the actual’. Don’t look for problems (which in itself can be an addiction) – you only need to investigate when you are not felicitous/ innocuous, which your ongoing attentiveness will inform you of. CHRONO: I’ve been down the road of looking for problems and trying to fix them (and it certainly is an addiction) haha. And couple that with insincerity and the suffering only gets magnified and perpetuated. I’ve fought with myself for long enough. Seeing this cunning operating more clearly, I can apply putting things on an ‘it doesn’t really matter’ basis more effectively now. VINEETO: This is excellent. It takes a bit of getting used to it but when you remember Richard’s quote at the end of this message it makes it all so much more obvious that taking anything serious or emotionally urgent, as per the instinctual imperative, is well and truly a waste of time. * VINEETO: Ha, you discover something that could be life-changing – that life is meant to be fun – and what does the identity do, automatically, ‘you’ make it into a problem! It’s a natural ‘self’-protecting reaction, and only informs you how cunning ‘I’ am when feeling in danger of exposure. Recognize the silliness and humour in the situation and voilà, the problem disappears. CHRONO: Yes I allowed this seeing and I wondered in a gentle way “how would it be if life was meant to be fun from now on?” First it was felt that “life can be fun from now on” is boring (and this I found rather funny) but then that feeling dipped into a deeper feeling which I felt surging throughout my whole body. There was a deep feeling of dread. Basically I became aware that I am mortal. I am going to die and there is no escaping it. Perhaps some part of me has had the belief that ‘I’ could be immortal. That I would be able to cheat death somehow. Death is a fact and there’s no escaping it. It’s rather funny and not funny to me at the same time lol. All of this is connected somehow and one seeing here expands my seeing on the other beliefs. I can see how this relates to the “Tried and Failed”. VINEETO: The desire for immortality certainly relates to the “Tried and Failed”, but it also relates to the instinctual programming to survive at any cost and the fact that ‘I’/ ‘me’ have usurped the role of this body’s keeper. Here is a fascinating insight from Richard on the origin of the universal belief in ‘my’ immortality –
This information might not make it easier to face the “deep feeling of dread” when contemplating that you are mortal. For ‘Vineeto’ the other side of the coin was the very possibility that ‘my’ ‘immortal soul’ can go extinct *before* physical death, exactly what ‘Vineeto’ wanted more than anything else in ‘her’ life (after she learnt about an actual freedom and experienced the actual world in PCEs). So you can see that your fear of death and your search for freedom from the human condition are intimately linked. The fear of death is the ultimate weapon of defence each time ‘you’ feel in danger of being insignificant, diminished or exposed as a contingent being. Being this flesh-and-blood body only there is no fear of death at all.
* VINEETO: This quote from Richard’s journal Yes, “just another human being” is more than a “belief” – when ‘I’ am in charge, that is how ‘I’ perceive and assess everyone, including oneself – nothing special, either with grey-coloured glasses – gloomy and hostile to ‘me’ – or rose-coloured glasses – loving and trusting towards ‘me’, and hence extensions of ‘me’ “part of ‘my’ world”, as ‘Vineeto’ said. In the second quote ‘she’ described what happened during a PCE, an apperceptive seeing. It was very startling and entirely new to ‘her’ experience. Indeed, it is excellent you start seeing the bigger pattern, and how ultimately all ‘right’ and ‘wrong’, ‘good’ and ‘bad’ injunctions stem from the ‘Tried and Failed’ paradigm Richard described in his Journal, Article Two, you quoted above. When you understand this in its totality, it loses its virtue, attraction and power over you. CHRONO: The level to which these injunctions and perhaps spirituality itself have seeped into every nook and cranny of everyday life is astounding. It’s so all-encompassing that you would initially not even be able to conceive of another alternative. VINEETO: It is indeed “all-encompassing” and has not just “seeped” in – spirituality is part and parcel of being a ‘being’ because ‘being’ itself is not actual and as such ‘you’ are ‘a spirit being’, so to speak. Peter described it like this –
This caused a stir of protests on the mailing list, so Richard explained it further –
CHRONO: So I decided to turn away from following my usual way of being about intimacy. And I was simply allowing a “what if?”. Like just suspending ‘my’ path temporarily just to see. Then my eyes were seeing into the softness of being here. I became aware of that sweetness. This sweetness was not directional as if for one person. It was here for everyone. It was markedly different from the usual way of being intimate. It didn’t have to be on a special occasion. It’s always here. I am wondering now if I could always be like this. What’s standing in the way? VINEETO: Ah, this is delicious – it’s the very sweetness of the imminence of pure intent
(see Actualvineeto, Articles, Sweetness * VINEETO: Ah, this is wonderful. Diminishing ‘self’-centricity allows you to be increasingly naïve, liking yourself and others and discovering how much fun being alive really is. Here is a snippet from ‘Vineeto’ you might relate to –
CHRONO: Yes I can relate to that. Sometimes though I feel in people’s sad stories it can flip to compassion. But I can more easily see now how it’s not harmless. I am perpetuating both mine and the others’ suffering when I am being compassionate. But it still feels like a “tug at the heart strings” like I am abandoning everyone. VINEETO: That is the dichotomy of the old paradigm as laid out in Richard’s Journal, 1997, Article Two you quoted in your last message. The third alternative always becomes apparent when you follow neither one or the other of the real-world alternatives. CHRONO: It does make sense now that I think about it. It seems much of my childhood hurts have been held on passionately deep down and are the source of much of my railing against “the system”. I was on a trip with my partner this past week and we finished watching “Mr. Robot” and I related very deeply with the protagonist especially towards the end. I felt his hurts as my own and the indignation and hurt reached fever pitch. This post from Richard is indeed very familiar and timely as it helped backing out of it. I find myself sometimes thinking that I am supposed to hold onto these hurts and slights, otherwise I will let people walk all over me and take advantage of me. But I am an adult now aren’t I? Something further to unfold here which I will come back to. VINEETO: (…) CHRONO: It feels like my biggest current block is those childhood hurts. I am aware of it operating in many situations now. The indignation keeps the hurt in place that I can see. But without the indignation there is only hurt. I’ll try your suggestion and not rely on emotional reactions but instead look at each individual situation intelligently. VINEETO: I quoted something to Andrew yesterday about letting go of childhood hurts, which you might have
already read
At the beginning of that correspondence Richard talks about “the need for a friend” which might be informative for you as well. *
CHRONO: Ha I find it funny that death is what makes everything not serious but also is so serious
for ‘me’. VINEETO: Here is another one for fun –
VINEETO: This is excellent. It takes a bit of getting used to it but when you remember Richard’s quote at the end of this message it makes it all so much more obvious that taking anything serious or emotionally urgent, as per the instinctual imperative, is well and truly a waste of time. CHRONO: I am glad that you pointed this out as an instinctual urgency as framing it this way has helped a lot too. Usually I have approached it as “OCD”. As this way of being does indeed look for problems or create problems (and subsequently try to solve them). The source of which is the “angst and agitation” which I’ve mentioned earlier. I’ve been applying the “it doesn’t really matter basis” to more and more things and it has caused some more ease and enjoyment. VINEETO: Hi Chrono, Remember that it is still the case of what you said before –
And I replied that it was “in line with what Sigmund Freud classified as the aim of psychiatry: to return
patients “back to a state of as near-normal functioning as possible (and ‘normal’ is
categorised by Mr. Sigmund Freud as ‘common human unhappiness’)” The people who invented and use such labels like “OCD” to ‘diagnose’ various
aspects of the human condition can only endeavour to ameliorate the symptoms, if that, but fail to diagnose, let
alone treat, the root cause of the problem itself – the instinctual imperative common to all feeling beings. And
the cute thing is that the solution to the human condition, an actual freedom, has been “classified as a ‘severe
psychotic condition’ in the DSM-IV” by those very same professionals. I am well pleased to hear that “applying the “it doesn’t really matter basis” to more and more things […] has caused some more ease and enjoyment”. CHRONO: This past week I went camping with my partner for the holiday and I noticed that she likes things in a very organized and specific way before she can relax. Otherwise she ends up becoming anxious or antsy. And that caused some frustration on my end as I prefer to do things in a leisurely way. But I saw that that was her way of being and that’s how she deals with it. She also does not readily share how she feels when experiencing a negative feeling as she needs time to process her feelings or she just keeps them bottled inside unless I really ask her. The sour vibe that stems from this causes anxiety on my end as it triggers my urgency to “fix” it. But I’ve already stated my preference to be open about feelings and/or talk through them. And only recently did I see that I’ve been adding fuel to the fire by going along with this way of being. It has been my main obstacle to feeling good now as I feel it to the core. Perhaps all of this is the very instinctual seriousness in action. So putting this on a “it doesn’t really matter basis” has been a huge help. Richard’s quote at the end highlights that I seem to lose sight of this fact of death and thus make everything serious. VINEETO: Feeling being ‘Vineeto’ noticed early into ‘her’ investigations into male-female relationships that men have the instinctual inclination to fix a problem when presented to them, while females are more instinctually inclined to want sympathy and understanding for their emotional problems (reaffirming ‘me’) rather than solving them. The only solution actualism has to offer is dissolution, in other words to become autonomous, so that a near-actual intimacy can ensue. Here are some experiential reports –
I also found a fitting description from Devika in Richard’s Journal –
CHRONO: Also related, I saw in action how I create ripples by even wanting to share how I feel about my anxiety to her because it in turn activates some feeling for her. Even the very desire to share it is self-centric because if I’m being honest, the main reason I want to share is so that she will alleviate it through some commiseration. It does seem like the center of what a relationship is. But that never eliminates the original feeling. Only covers it up. And I realized that by trying to seek solace in this way, I end up reinforcing my way of being and also contributing to negative vibes. VINEETO: How right you are – you create/ feed/ multiply those negative feelings and their accompanying vibes by ‘sharing’ – a word highly valued in modern social circles – unless you share delight and appreciation. *
CHRONO: What I take away from this is how “death was my constant companion; an ever-present reminder that to die without having ever lived fully as in totally fulfilled, completely satisfied, utterly content – was such a waste of a life”. Which perspective seems to be the key. VINEETO: The propinquity of death is indeed a sobering reminder, whenever you allow it, with the capacity to cut through every subterfuge ‘I’ contrive to stay in existence. But it is also an exquisite reminder how immensely precious an actual freedom from the human condition is. * VINEETO: The desire for immortality certainly relates to the “Tried and Failed”, but it also relates to the instinctual programming to survive at any cost and the fact that ‘I’/ ‘me’ have usurped the role of this body’s keeper. Here is a fascinating insight from Richard on the origin of the universal belief in ‘my’ immortality – (…) CHRONO: Ah yes that makes sense that the “Tried and Failed” itself is a function of the instinctual programming. I remember reading that fascinating quote and it reminded me of the book “The Selfish Gene” but at the time I had never thought of ‘me’ as being the very genetic memory. As for dread, I find that it’s the looking away from that feeling which makes it churn. But I also don’t know how to stop looking away. VINEETO: Denying, pushing away or fighting fear in any way including being afraid of being afraid always adds fuel to the feeling of fear or dread. Look for the thrill. Here is a little story –
* VINEETO: It is indeed “all-encompassing” and has not just “seeped” in – spirituality is part and parcel of being a ‘being’ because ‘being’ itself is not actual and as such ‘you’ are ‘a spirit being’, so to speak. (…)
CHRONO: It’s very interesting how one can be this spirit being while also denying one is a spirit being. Perhaps some self-survival strategy. I realized this was also the issue with the Buddhist ‘no-self’ crowd. They equate ‘no-self’ with there being no spirit while denying that they are that very spirit which is doing the looking. Once again, all eyes off ‘me’. Richard’s whole exposition of modern and ancient Buddhism was a real eye opener. There is a useful word for it – cognitive dissonance An ever-increasing attentiveness will eventually sweep out all dark corners of one’s psyche and make cognitive dissonance redundant so that naiveté can flourish.
* CHRONO: So I decided to turn away from following my usual way of being about intimacy. And I was simply allowing a “what if?”. Like just suspending ‘my’ path temporarily just to see. Then my eyes were seeing into the softness of being here. I became aware of that sweetness. This sweetness was not directional as if for one person. It was here for everyone. It was markedly different from the usual way of being intimate. It didn’t have to be on a special occasion. It’s always here. I am wondering now if I could always be like this. What’s standing in the way? VINEETO: Ah, this is delicious – it’s the very sweetness of the imminence of pure intent
(see Actualvineeto, Articles, Sweetness CHRONO: I am still reading through this correspondence but I always thought it interesting that words like sweetness, delicious, and ambrosial are used as they seem to be words related to taste or smell. But I see they could be related to “delight”. Initially I couldn’t understand what the word sweetness meant because I can only relate it to tasting something sweet. Also I relate very much with what you wrote here:
Although this was after you became actually free, I’ve had a few
experiences which I would describe with the exact same words used here. Another word that came to mind was
“precious” or “preciosity”. VINEETO: This sweetness was mainly experienced by feeling being ‘Vineeto’, especially during ‘her’ out-from-control period and later when I endeavoured to become fully free. It is the pure intent – experienced as “an actually occurring stream of benevolence and benignity that originates in the vast and utter stillness that is the essential character of the universe itself”. It is tangible when you experience that you are not alone in this adventure of a lifetime. Follow this ambrosial sweetness and you can’t go wrong. And as Kuba recently said –
When you say “precious” I am instantly reminded of my all-time favourite piece of writing in Richard’s Journal –
Whereas the fervent feeling of one’s ‘precious’ identity is a mere, and troublesome, bauble by comparison.
VINEETO: The people who invented and use such labels like “OCD” to ‘diagnose’
various aspects of the human condition can only endeavour to ameliorate the symptoms, if that, but fail to diagnose,
let alone treat, the root cause of the problem itself – the instinctual imperative common to all feeling beings.
And the cute thing is that the solution to the human condition, an actual freedom, has been “classified as a ‘severe
psychotic condition’ in the DSM-IV” by those very same professionals. I am well pleased to hear that “applying the “it doesn’t really matter basis” to more and more things […] has caused some more ease and enjoyment”. CHRONO: Hi Vineeto, Yes I did seem to have some remnant ways of looking and approaching to my feelings from prior conditioning. But I can honestly say that I have found that my life has improved much more with the actualism approach than in my entire lifetime of approaching it thru the lens of psychology and spirituality. VINEETO: Hi Chrono, It is very understandable that you “have some remnant ways of looking and approaching to my feelings from prior conditioning”. This will be the case until every bit of conditioning is recognized as such and put aside, so to speak. And every time you recognize and acknowledge that you are better off and that your “life has improved much more with the actualism approach”, it gives you confidence that the direction you have chosen is well worthwhile pursuing. * CHRONO: This past week I went camping with my partner for the holiday and I noticed that she likes things in a very organized and specific way before she can relax. Otherwise she ends up becoming anxious or antsy. And that caused some frustration on my end as I prefer to do things in a leisurely way. But I saw that that was her way of being and that’s how she deals with it. She also does not readily share how she feels when experiencing a negative feeling as she needs time to process her feelings or she just keeps them bottled inside unless I really ask her. The sour vibe that stems from this causes anxiety on my end as it triggers my urgency to “fix“ it. But I’ve already stated my preference to be open about feelings and/or talk through them. And only recently did I see that I’ve been adding fuel to the fire by going along with this way of being. It has been my main obstacle to feeling good now as I feel it to the core. Perhaps all of this is the very instinctual seriousness in action. So putting this on a “it doesn’t really matter basis” has been a huge help. Richard’s quote at the end highlights that I seem to lose sight of this fact of death and thus make everything serious. VINEETO: (…) The only solution actualism has to offer is dissolution, in other words to become autonomous, so that a near-actual intimacy can ensue. (…) CHRONO: Also related, I saw in action how I create ripples by even wanting to share how I feel about my anxiety to her because it in turn activates some feeling for her. Even the very desire to share it is self-centric because if I’m being honest, the main reason I want to share is so that she will alleviate it through some commiseration. It does seem like the centre of what a relationship is. But that never eliminates the original feeling. Only covers it up. And I realized that by trying to seek solace in this way, I end up reinforcing my way of being and also contributing to negative vibes. VINEETO: How right you are – you create/ feed/ multiply those negative feelings and their accompanying vibes by ‘sharing’ – a word highly valued in modern social circles – unless you share delight and appreciation. CHRONO: I can see now that’s the only way (dissolution) thru this relationship dynamic as no other solution works in regards to peace and harmony. I am ready to ‘lay down my arms’ so to speak. Unilaterally cutting this cord as ‘Vineeto’ had done. I initially likened it to breaking up with them without breaking up with them, but it helps me more to frame it in the way of seeing that by being her ‘boyfriend’ or trying to have her be my ‘girlfriend’ prevents intimacy (which irony I find pretty funny). Once again I am seeing that it is the ‘Good’ that keeps the ‘Bad’ alive. By aiming to gain that “security” of the relationship, I am keeping ‘my’ loneliness and separation alive. And to break it down further, I am trying to gain that “security” instinctually via my male conditioning as you had described of giving solutions to my partner only so that it will provide me the emotional comfort of a “stable” relationship. It has nothing to with seeing her as a fellow human being. VINEETO: Again, the key is to recognize the traditional way in action, reinforced by your feelings, and then, consciously and deliberatively – with knowledge aforethought – declining oh-so-sensibly to futilely go down that well-trodden path to nowhere fruitful yet again, and try something new, more naïve and playful, or even doing nothing for a while. You will notice that the moment you stop putting pressure on yourself and on your partner to force a solution, it becomes easier to feel good, the dynamic changes, and you can let a sensible course of action prevail. There is a lot of information to be gained, and confirmation for what works and what doesn’t, when you apply attentiveness to how you behave and feel. There is a lot of information to be gained, and confirmation for what works and what doesn’t, when you apply attentiveness to how you behave and feel. It is, after all, the unravelling of a life-long programming plus conditioning, which you are undertaking, and you get better and better at it – you eventually can come to see it as fun puzzles you are solving. As you said to Josef –
* VINEETO: Denying, pushing away or fighting fear in any way including being afraid of being afraid always adds fuel to the feeling of fear or dread. Look for the thrill. Here is a little story – (snipped) CHRONO: I can relate very well to being afraid of being afraid and to delve into the fear as that’s my main issue. I’ve been looking for the thrill on the bottom-left hand side as Richard suggests but can’t seem to find it (joking haha). I’m ready to embrace it as an adventure on the next occurrence. VINEETO: At first, the fear seems insurmountable and you back away. But each time you gain some more insight (perhaps the thrill is the right-top corner, or down the middle?) and you dare to go a little further and gather more confidence each time you dare. * CHRONO: It’s very interesting how one can be this spirit being while also denying one is a spirit being. Perhaps some self-survival strategy. I realized this was also the issue with the Buddhist ‘no-self’ crowd. They equate ‘no-self’ with there being no spirit while denying that they are that very spirit which is doing the looking. Once again, all eyes off ‘me’. Richard’s whole exposition of modern and ancient Buddhism was a real eye opener. VINEETO: There is a useful word for it – cognitive dissonance An ever-increasing attentiveness will eventually sweep out all dark corners of one’s psyche and make cognitive dissonance redundant so that naiveté can flourish. CHRONO: When I reflect on it, it seems as if ‘my’ whole existence is one giant cognitive dissonance. Something that I do not want to see or acknowledge. VINEETO: Here is a pertinent quote from a long conversation Richard had with a someone concerned about sanity and insanity –
And from the same conversation further down –
Feeling being ‘Vineeto’ found this whole topic of sanity, insanity and salubriousness * CHRONO: (…) I relate very much with what you wrote here:
(…) CHRONO: I experienced it again when I saw that I want to feel good for the rest of my life. It’s so much better than being anything else. I’ve been trying to see how to allow more of it. But each time I “try” to, it has the opposite effect. I am still reading the correspondence and have more to write but I will have to come back to it. VINEETO: This is excellent and the best you can experience as a feeling being. It is the stream of benignity and benevolence of pure intent streaming in. To “try” is to be exerting control, and pure intent cannot be forced, only invited and allowed to live your life.
A great report of incremental success.
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